Pharaoh: ---
Pharaoh: Let me just select a fine cigar for today's chat, and then we'll get started...
Pharaoh: Ah, still have one that Tweetiti gave me...
Pharaoh: (Cohiba!)
Pharaoh: Welcome all...
Pharaoh: So today I'd like to discuss the Test of the Plantation...
Pharaoh: Which - unless we all discover some design flaw - is ready to go.
Pharaoh: This Test is based significantly on the proposed Legacy Test of the same name, which was somehow turned down in favor of the Test of True Leadership. (IMO, Plantation was a vastly better Test!)
Deeva: Can you highlight for us any changes to the original test design you might have made?
Pharaoh: Actually, what I'm going to do is describe the Test as implemented - I'll leave it to everyone else to do the diffs :)
Pharaoh: Ok, so the first thing you do is start a Cocoa Plantation. You have three cocoa seeds to begin with, though you can get more...
Pharaoh: And the goal of a plantation is to produce as much Cocoa as possible.
Pharaoh: Each plant that you ...plant has one designated Tender - a person that can harvest cocoa from it.
Pharaoh: And a given plant can be harvested at most every 12 hours.
Pharaoh: When cocoa is harvested, it can then be turned in at the plantation headquarters - if it's not turned in, the owner doesn't get credit for it of course.
Pharaoh: In a given week, if your plantation is among the top 7 in terms of turned in cocoa, then you progress toward passing the Test. It takes 3 progressions to pass.
Pharaoh: And it's cocoa harvested *that week*, not cocoa harvested to date. I sort of went back and forth on that part.
Pharaoh: Ok, so here's how your plantation can grow...
Pharaoh: (beyond 3 plants)...
Pharaoh: If a given tender harvests at least 3 times, and turns in at least 3 cocoa to the plantation headquarters, then their tending is considered "perfect"
Pharaoh: Remember, they have one realtime week to do this. (And they can harvest once every 12 hours "TeppyTime")
Pharaoh: So reasonably casual players should be able to be perfect Tenders if they're reliable.
Harere: Are the Cocoa Trees like Citrus trees and the Cocoa builds up, or will there only every be ONE cocoa to harvest and the 12 hour harvest counter starts once the current crop is harvested?
Pharaoh: No, the cocoa doesn't build up.
Pharaoh: And a Plantation is considered to have perfect tending if every single plant has a different Tender, and if you've planted all seeds, and if all Tenders have tended perfectly.
Calixes: i think i understood this, but to be clear, the one attempting the test is the one who designates the growers?
Pharaoh: Yes.
Pharaoh: Ok, so that line above about perfect tending is important...
Pharaoh: All three conditions must be met for a plantation's tending to be considered perfect.
Ariella: Are Tenders randomly assigned or the Grower chooses them?
Pharaoh: The grower chooses them.
Nissim: when you talk about 3 progressions to pass, do I understand correctly that it takes 3 x 1 week?
Pharaoh: Yes
Deeva: Can they be a spouse?
Pharaoh: Doing a spouse login, sure.
Ziyad: So the tenders do not pass, only the growers?
Pharaoh: Right.
Safirah: How about mules?
Pharaoh: Mules can participate, as they can in any Test.
Pharaoh: Ok, so any Plantation that is perfectly tended gets 3 additional seeds. The seeds themselves show up on randomly selected cocoa plants, and it's up to the tenders to get those to the plantation owner.
Pharaoh: Now there's one other way to get extra seeds...
Pharaoh: It figures out which plantations are closest to perfection - a percentage of perfection (and it shows you this in a report at each week's end.)
Pharaoh: And the 7 plantations closest to perfection also get 3 seeds each, in addition to all of the perfect plantations.
Shivani: can seeds be traded between plantation owners?
Pharaoh: Seeds are portable objects that can be traded, but the plantation itself keeps track of how many unplanted seeds there are, so just having 1000 seeds doesn't mean that you can plant 1000 cocoa plants.
Spicy: Can you only plant your own seeds, or can people give you the ones they get from the uni? Can tenders steal seeds and use them to plant their own plantation?
Pharaoh: If you lose a seed (or one of your tenders fails to give you a seed that they harvested), then you can use one that someone else gives you.
Pharaoh: Also, you can mulch a plant - you might want to do this if someone hasn't shown up to Tend for a couple weeks and is dragging down your perfection...
Shivani: yes but suppose i have 3 seeds, and my two mules each give me 3 seeds. can I start with 9 plants instead of 3?
Pharaoh: No, the plantation itself will only support 3 plants to start with.
Pharaoh: But if you mulch a plant...
Pharaoh: You don't get to automatically plant another one, even though you may have extra seeds.
Deeva: ooOOoOO so you cant have more trees than your plantation thinks it should have?
Pharaoh: Exactly.
Pharaoh: So mulching a plant is a judgement call.
Pharaoh: Also, you may choose to make the same person Tender of more than one plant...
Pharaoh: But if you do that then you are guaranteeing that your plantation won't have perfect tending...
Pharaoh: (Though it may still qualify as one of the 7 most nearly perfect plantations.)
talos: Is there any level requirment for the tenders, to dissalow easy passing using mules?
Pharaoh: Perhaps we should limit tenders to paid players, or to level (3?) or something. So far I haven't put in any limits, though creating a bunch of unpaid mules is not allowed anyway.
Baldur: what happens if more than 7 people tie for the weekly advances?
Pharaoh: Then the advances are retained and more advance the next week.
Safirah: What level do you have to be to do this test?
Pharaoh: 15
Spicy: So if you mulch, that doesn't count as one too few plants and also drag down your perfection score?
Pharaoh: No, mulching plants that have been abandoned (say, the tender quits, or just doesn't usually bother tending) actually helps your percentage of perfection.
Harere: Just to clarify... to get a true perfect tending you need to have a different harvester for each of your plants?
Pharaoh: Yes.
Calixes: i'd prefer to see the designees be random. it just doesn't seem like it takes too much leadership to lead people who are already willing to follow.
Pharaoh: I thought about doing that...
Pharaoh: But I think it would throw a huge random element into the Test - much more randomness than I'd like.
Helpma: Is a tender restricted to only one plantation, or can they tend in several players plantations?
Pharaoh: One tender can work any number of Plantations.
Pharaoh: Plantations must be physically far apart (1000 feet), and may not be close (2000 feet) to a chariot stop.
Asheara: can you tend a tree of your own
Pharaoh: You can not tend any trees at your own Plantation.
Pharaoh: (IOW, you may not designate yourself tender.)
Harere: A quick for example... In the first week, EVERYONE who has 3 plants that are harvested 3 times and is turned in, will get 3 more seeds, PLUS the 7 people closest to perfection. Is this correct?
Pharaoh: Correct.
Deeva: If it was so...you'd have to convince someone to support you, rather than someone else.
Pharaoh: Right, but we already have Tests with that mechanism, which is the reason I did Plantation this way.
Ziyad: is there a limit to how mant plants one tender may tend?
Pharaoh: No limit.
Riazzia: Once you pass the test , can you keep harvesting seeds from the trees ?
Pharaoh: Yes.
Pharaoh: The Plantation itself can't progress (cocoa harvest count) after it has passed it's owner, but can continue to acquire additional seeds under either rule.
Harere: The following week all off the people who have ONLY 3 plants, but are tended properly AND the people who have 6 plants tended properly and the 7 closest to perfection will get 3 more seeds?
Pharaoh: Yes
Meidori: If you have a plantation of your own, can you still be a tender for other plantations?
Pharaoh: Yes
talos: Can a tender have also his own trees?
Pharaoh: One of your tenders may also have his own plantation, yes.
Calixes: and if you mulch, no seed is returned?
Pharaoh: No, no seed (and no right to plant a replacement seed for that mulched plant) is returned.
Harere: Other than to intentionally messing up the person you are harvesting for, does that harvester gain anything from NOT turing in the cocoa to the plantation headquarters?
Pharaoh: He'd get the Cocoa, which is a food, and given the numbers, may be a fairly rare (good stats!0 food.
tat2mikki: so if you mulch a plant do you EVER get the chance to replant it?
Pharaoh: No, but you're essentially raising your perfection in future weeks, so mulching is a way to (indirectly) earn more seeds.
Harere: The main reason to continue your plantation after you pass is to provide "make up seeds" from people who have otherwise lost seeds, had seeds stolen or need to replace mulched plants.
Pharaoh: Right, and it's likely that seeds will have some other uses as do certain veggie seeds.
Pharaoh: (Though I haven't coded any such uses yet.)
Harere: So with that said, I gather a passed person and their tenders can go into the cocoa business. :)
Pharaoh: Yes.
Mebala: Do you have to plant all your seeds in a certain area? or can seeds for 1 plantation be planted anywhere in Egypt?
Pharaoh: Seeds must be planted within 1000 feet of the Plantation headquarters.
Shivani: so if you mulch a plant, that is just a loss to producton... you want to be sure it pays in uppng your perfection?
Shivani: so what? once I get a large number of plants why do i care? more cocoa is the key to passing the test. (for the record I dont do things like ths wth my mules, but I do like to ask lots of questons lol)
Pharaoh: Once you get a large plantation, you certainly might want to really encourage your tenders to go into overdrive and boost production.
Spicy: How much room does each plant take up?
Pharaoh: They're small, maybe 6-8 feet high, a couple feet across.
Harere: FYI... 1000 feet = 62.5 coords
MaruboII: can the owner of a plantation eat the cacao turned in?
Pharaoh: Yes. Once it's been turned in you can eat it, give it away, etc.
Pharaoh: (Well, cook with it anyway.)
Ariella: Trees have to be 1000 feet apart...but is that each person's trees have to be from your own or from all others?
Pharaoh: Trees (cocoa plants) must be within 1000 feet of the Plantation HQ. They can be close to each other.
tat2mikki: can the plantation owner also be the tender for one of their plants? WOuld that still count towards "perfect"?
Pharaoh: No, it prohibits you from naming yourself Tender.
ysabeau: so is the point advancement going to go up with each pass as like the colition?
Pharaoh: Harvest is for each week, not cumulative. You can have a great week and Progress, and then a shitty week and not progress, and then a great week and progress, etc.
Pharaoh: Three progressions (not necessarily in a row) to pass the Test of the Plantation.
AlienaVale: will we be able to make packable chocolates that can alter stats on the run ;)
Pharaoh: Now that actually is an idea I like.
Pharaoh: A chocolate making system seperate from cooking that has that property - cool idea!
Harere: Two questions based on the original test... Is there a stat timer on harvesting? Can the trees be drrpa'ed or claimed?
Pharaoh: Not a stat timer, but a per-plant timer of 12 hours.
Meidori: Maybe a new 'chocolate factory' building? hehe
Athiria: I would like to pount out something, I can see this test very easly turning into a populartit test from what i'm heraring, example a big guild wants thier people to pass so they choose one to be the owner and all the rest harvesters and once that person passes they then cycle through the people in the guild
Pharaoh: It is a Leadership Test :)
Calixes: we're chattering about this in the Hive, and some folks seem to think that making it different people per plant might be a good change.
Pharaoh: Explain, Cal.
Mosi: Is tending transferable, can you name someone else as a tender for a plant?
Pharaoh: No, not transferable.
Riazzia: This plantation headquarters..Is this a seperate building the owner will have to build ?
Yendor: Well, for example, if I log in YendorsSlave as my tender, my plantation will grow by 12-13 seeds per tree per week. Not fair to people with less play time and no mule I think
Harere: to have a perfect harvest, each of you plants must have a differant harvester
Pharaoh: Right
Pharaoh: Plantations are not too expensive to build: 1000 bricks, somemoss, and 2 silk cloth.
Calixes: if i understand correctly, while the same person tending doesn't lead to perfection, it still helps. *requiring* different people would at least put a little roadblock in place to make it harder.
Pharaoh: It actually takes away from perfection...
Pharaoh: Say you have 3 plants, two tended by Yendor and one tended by YendorsSlave...
Pharaoh: And say that all plants are prefectly tended...
Pharaoh: Then the plantation itself is 66.7% perfect, since you could have had 3 different Tenders.
Harere: Are the bonus seeds are awarded ONCE a week, or are they awarded once all of your trees are harvested 3 time?
Pharaoh: Once/week.
Ariella: so as the game progresses it will become more difficult to find a spot to have your Plantation headquarters like trying to find spots for raeli ovens?
Pharaoh: I s eteth radius high so that "showing up to work" is a meaningful activity.
Deeva: I'd just like to request considering making the Tenders have to be different for each plant. I dont see how having one or two people who will show up every 12 hours makes me a good leader. Having to have more people be reliable...thats a better reflection of Leadership.
Pharaoh: Figuring out the balance between maximizing your total harvest and growing the plantation itself is one of the keys to this Test.
tat2mikki: we are hearing info in HIVE that there is a "randomness" to the seeds "earned/awarded" as to whether they will be fertile and plantable....is this true?
Pharaoh: Not true at all.
Yendor: But if I am able to tend every 12 teppy hours, the 12+ seeds I gget per week pales compared to maybe 7-8 per tree + 3 more that my neighbors get?
Pharaoh: You don't get seeds by tending - you get cocoa by tending. Cocoa and cocoa seeds are different. Just like Garlic and Garlic seeds.
Yendor: Ah!
Bramblebrae: ? so if u get your 3 seeds and for some reason one of your tenders won't/can't tend - how will you ever get more seeds to progress?
Bramblebrae: not more seeds per say - I mean a chance to plant or replant the 3 spot and therefore get close enough to perfection to pass - or do you foresee that having only two plants tended will be enough eventually to get extra planting rights/seeds
Pharaoh: BY mulching the plants that they were designated to Tend.
Meidori: so you can achieve perfection with only two plants if you mulched the third
Pharaoh: Yes
Harere: Having all of your plants tended to by a spouse or a mule that you can log every 12 hours will get you a lot of cocoa, but will not get you more seeds
Pharaoh: Right. And will therefore ultimately limit the amount of Cocoa that is harvested. Tricky, eh?
Pharaoh: Ok, so quick informal poll of those that were also here for the chat on the Test of the Kingmaker...
Pharaoh: How does Plantation compare, based on what you've heard?
Trislan: Much better.
Lynese: Personally, I think its better than Kingmaker
Harere: Does the plantation HQ, show the owner the current status that week or does the owner find out what the status is when passes are run?
Pharaoh: Only when passes are run, and it gives you a nice detailed report. It doesn't show *who* tended or turned in cocoa, but it gives aggregate stats...
Harere: Better sir. :)
MaruboII: it sounds more fun and tactical
tat2mikki: kingmaker sucked, this at least has potential
Yendor: Better than Kingmaker! Think it could be improved furthru by requring a different tender for each tree
Baldur: This looks a lot better than kingmaker. a lot more leadership in getting people to reliably tend. and a lot less flaws
Calixes: better, though still doesn't sound tough enough. i like Lead tests to be really challenging.
Pharaoh: Well, it's a competitive pass Test. If ~2 passes/week is too easy, we can readdress that in T4 :)
Shivani: I agree. requiring a different tender for each tree would make it a better test, and therefore more challenging, thereby improving the test.
Harere: Is the Plantation HQ, sort of like a stashable chest as in the tenders stash the cocoa and only the owner may remove the cocoa, is that right?
Pharaoh: Correct.
Bramblebrae: so if i plant all 3 seeds and mulch two of them so I only need to get one tender to cooperate with it would be considered perfect tending if of course that one plant was tended perfectly by that one tender - BUT I would only be recieving limited cocoa compared to what I could have with all 3 plants- and the test is to balance all this to best effect?
Pharaoh: Yes
Pharaoh: I like the uncertainty of allowing multiple plants/tender - it makes for a nice strategy decision about whether to do that...
Pharaoh: But once we see how it all shakes out, we could do that requirement for T4, or do scoring like Funerary Temple where each tender is like a Raeli Tile color.
Harere: In a perfect world, this test will only pass 7 people every 3 weeks, BUT any player that is in the top seven and never passes will reduce the number of passes by the end of the tale.
Pharaoh: Right.
TheMazeEcho: Teppy, could you slow down a bit, we can't translate fast enough
Pharaoh: Sure, let me give a few min to catch up.
Pharaoh: You guys always complain that I type too slow!
Baldur: you do teppy!
Lynese: rofl, you have picked up a bit since tale 1
kuupid: your typing to fast now :)
Pharaoh: See, this is a really good cigar that I'm smoking, so that's making me type faster.
Pharaoh: (Thank you Tweetiti!)
kuupid: roflmao
Safirah: lol
Lynese: *wonders what king of "cigar" that is*
Athiria: oh so all we have to do to get on your good side is send you a really good cigar ;) lol j/k
Pharaoh: Yeah, especially you players living in countries with sane trade policies ;)
Pharaoh: (Say when, TME.)
Harere: And must the cocoa be in the Plantation HQ at the end of the week, or is it immediately credited upon deposit?
Pharaoh: As long as it's in by the end of the week it counts.
Harere: A quick question on perfection... If you have 3 trees, each with its own harvester, once all 3 harvesters have harvested and deposited 3 times that week, are you consider perfect, or can they mess up after the fact, by harvesting and not depositing any tress above the 3rd tree each?
Pharaoh: No, once a given harvester has turned in 3 cocoa, they're considered perfect. They can harvest beyond that without penalty. Doesn't matter if they turn in those extras or not.
Pharaoh: (Though requiring extras be turned in to count as perfection would be an interesting tweek for a future telling.)
tat2mikki: but if they harvest more than 3 cocoa...does that extra count towards the total for that owner for the week?
Pharaoh: Only if those extras are turned in.
Yendor: Could a harvester "steal" cocao from one plantation and turn it in to a different one?
Pharaoh: No. It won't let you turn in cocoa to a different plantation.
Harere: For cocoa to be properly credited, must it be harvested and deposited the SAME week? Or can people "store up" cocoa and bump their score a following week?
Pharaoh: Yes
Pharaoh: Must be turned in that week, and would not be turn-in-able the next week.
Pharaoh: What actually happens behind the scenes is this:
Pharaoh: The instant you tend a plant, it sends a message to the plantation HQ saying "expect 1 cocoa from player X to be turned in" and it checks and subtracts that number when it's actually turned in.
Narytiri: Is there a limit to the number of trees in different plantations that one person can tend?
Pharaoh: No limit.
ba-dabing: What do the Tenders get in return? Points towards passing similar to Beaureau or Coalition?
Pharaoh: Absolutely nothing, unless they fail tu turn in the cocoa.
kuupid: is there a limit to number of tenders you have per plantation?
Pharaoh: No limit.
TheMazeEcho: Teppy, when :)
Harere: Might I suggest that the cocoa harvested be name like Cocoa:Harere, but then needs to be dried to become cookable Cocoa. And Cocoa:Harere can only be turned in to my Plantation.
Pharaoh: Yeah, I thought about doing that, but I actually like the anonymity aspect. If the tunred in cocoa comes up short ( both number are reported at week-end), then it creates an uncertainty about which of your tenders is stealing(?) or failing to turn in the cocoa.
Narytiri: Is there a limit to the number of trees or plantations that one person can harvest/tend?
Pharaoh: No limit.
Neurfur: Can a harvester tend more than one tree from different plantations rapidly? There is no timer on the player, just the tree.
Pharaoh: Yes, though the plantation HQ's must be 1000' from each other.
tat2mikki: not if the cocoa is named for the OWNER, not the tender
Pharaoh: True, but it adds complexity without adding strategy.
Shivani: but two plantatoins could be 1000 ft apart, and their trees planted between the two of them, so they intermingle?
ba-dabing: So if I go to Owner A and tend for them and harvest cocoa and then go to Owner B and do the same, how do I know how much cocoa to turn in at each plantation?
Pharaoh: It's always 1/plant, so it's up to the tender to keep track :)
Pharaoh: (Though let's say you do that with 2 plants. You go to turn in the cocoa to one plantation HQ, and it will only let you turn in the 1.
Pharaoh: Ok, so I think that about covers it..
Pharaoh: Ok, Principles...
Pharaoh: 1. Build a Plantation HQ
Pharaoh: 2. Plant 3 seeds.
Pharaoh: 3. Have at least 7 cocoa turned in.
Pharaoh: 4. Get an extra seed. (Really 3 extra seeds, since they're always given out in 3's)
Harere: So since the cocoa is anonymous, you might actually turn in the actual cocoa that you harvested to the HQ that you got the cocoa from. There is checking to make sure that the same amount of cocoa harvested and the same amount deposited are the same?
Pharaoh: It prevents you from turning in more than you harvested for a particular plantation.
ba-dabing: Ah, that's where we were confused
Pharaoh: Ok, I think that's everything...
Harere: DRRPA, Claiming, Guilding and Giving Away Trees of Plantation HQs? What can and can not be done?
Pharaoh: None of that can be done.
ba-dabing: Teppy, there seems to be ...controversy... missing
Pharaoh: Ah, well, for controversy you should have been here for the Test of the Kingmaker discussion :)
Baldur: how long do you have to turn in the cocoa? does it reaset weekly with passes? or is it a set amount of hours?
Pharaoh: It resets at the end of the week. So it's best to turn it in right after harvest.
ba-dabing: There's no takeovers or harvesting for one planataion and giving it to another
Pharaoh: Nope.
Harere: Only Tearing down, if you DPPRA I gather?
Pharaoh: Right.
Pharaoh: And when you tear it down, then the plants can be torn down (mulched, essentially) by anyone.
Pharaoh: Ok, I've got to put in one little bit of code - the thing where it prevents double-passes...
Pharaoh: So, expect the Test in about 15-30 minutes.
Pharaoh: Thanks all - Pharaoh out!