Pharaoh: Welcome all...
Pharaoh: I'd like to discuss a new Test of Leadership which will be either our last or (more likely) next-to-last Leadership Test this Tale...
Pharaoh: IOW< I expect to release this Test next, probably during the week.
Pharaoh: The working title "The Test of the Kingmaker" is a hint that "Better to be a Kingmaker than a King"
Pharaoh: Each period that the Test runs, we elect a King. (I don't really like the word "King" since "Pharaoh" usually implies the guy-in-charge in Egypt, but we can discuss the name.
Pharaoh: To run for King, you don't have to do anything - not even sign up as a candidate.
Pharaoh: Others can vote for you, either by clicking on you, or at a voting booth by typing your name.
Pharaoh: And the person who gets the most votes becomes King until the next election...
Pharaoh: Totally simple Test, right?
Pharaoh: But the goal of the Test is not to become King.
Pharaoh: If you're the first person to vote for someone in a given election, you get 100 points, provided that they go on to win the election and become King.
Pharaoh: And if you're the 2nd one to vote for the person that eventually goes on to become King, you get 50 points.
Pharaoh:: And if you're the 3rd to vote, you get 33 points. 4th you get 25 points, 5th you get 20 points, etc.
TheMazeEcho: can a player be elected king only once?
Pharaoh: I think that's a good restriction, as is the one where only paid players can participate. There are some gaming strategies that might sort of work if not.
Pharaoh: so the goal is to be the first person to elect as many people as you can?
Pharaoh: Yes. Passes are competitive by points, and points carry over from one election to the next.
Pharaoh: I think the correct number of passes per week at this late point in the Tale is around 3, but that's just a seat-of-the-pants number.
Telanoc: How does this tie into the discipline of "Leadership"?
Pharaoh: True power is manipulating the masses to support the one that you annoint.
Baldur: does this not often implie that the persons lucky enough to be on when the test starts gets an unfair advantage?
Pharaoh: I don't think so...
Pharaoh: In this Test, you are not allowed to switch votes.
Pharaoh: So while you want to be early, you certainly don't want to be wrong.
Tammy: you can vote for only 1 person?
Pharaoh: Yes.
Pharaoh: The strategy is straightforward - vote for the eventual winner, and do so early.
M:Telanoc: Ever? Or per cycle?
Pharaoh: Per cycle.
ellorin: that is power though not leadership in my opinion isn't there a difference
Telanoc: So, then like souls, will you be able to "catch up" if you start late?
Pharaoh: Yeah, I probably need to work in some sort of point decay system for that reason.
MouseD: well the person voted King earn any special privileges during the rein
Pharaoh: Yes, though I don't know what just yet. That was something I was hoping that we could brainstorm during this chat.
Tammy: If you are the 50th person (or even last person) to vote for the eventual winner of that cycle do you still get a point or points?
Pharaoh: Yes, and they'll carry forward.
MouseD: how about award a specail hat for the cycle time
Pharaoh: Or chat bubble
Pharaoh: (Not all models have a point positioned correctly to accept a hat.)
Korrin: colored text.. i like purple....
Otter: the bow option for everyone near you every 30 minutes
Pharaoh: I like that idea.
MouseD: I meant bubble as refering to hat Pharaoh lol
Pharaoh: Ah
Tobid: how about something practical like free travel
Pharaoh: Yes, or at 1/10 cost.
Tammy: How about a tangible reward such as tt, wheat, or some other resource
Telanoc: If you are going to give special power, I would suggest something tempting so that people do not don't "dump off" the election on a mule
Pharaoh: Right. It should be something worthwhile - I definitely don't want mule kings.
tat2mikki: how long would the cycle and/or voting period be? and how often would they occur?
Pharaoh: I'm thinking that the voting period is a week, and the lead time is a week.
Pharaoh: So a 2-week cycle.
TpcT: will someone be able to vote for themselves?
Pharaoh: No.
tat2mikki: This still seems to me to be more of a "lucky numbers game" than a Test of LEadership
Pharaoh: Because the weight of being the 1st/2nd/3rd is so high?
Pharaoh: That is a worry, but the points can be tweeked like this (for example):
tat2mikki: because it's all the luck of voting and timing, period, and not based on any qualities that make up a "leader"
Tobid: I agree with tat2mikki
Tammy: I think if it is one of those things that involves "manipulating" ppl we will run into the "gaming" issues again and that really detracts from everyones enjoyment of the game
Pharaoh: Describe a strategy that you think wil work.
Yendor: Yes, if you are unlucky and vote for the wrong person, you are SOL
Pharaoh: For that election, yes.
MouseD: some Free TT given to the winner would be a nice prize or a portable cornerstone
Ahakamin: Maybe I'm missing something but it sort of seems like a rewards system for brown-nosing...
Pharaoh: Here's how I might play it...
tat2mikki: I don't see any "strategy" that would make this scenario work as a test of leadership to be honest.
Lindie: if the point is to vote for a person to be king and not be king yourself, then being king should be a bad thing and penalized somehow, that way people dont set up king queues
Athiria: it seem most like another popularity contest to me .. put down a name every one knows and most will vote on it just cause they know them
Pharaoh: Actually, maybe I don't want to say what my strategy would be.
Pharaoh: But I definitely have one that I think could win.
Tammy: lol
Pharaoh: :P
Pharaoh: Quick poll - who here would try to vote the instant the election started? If you're one of them, /tell pharaoh ... who you would vote for of the election were to start RIGHT NOW! GO!
TpcT: Strategy: Vote as early as possible for someone you think has high visibility and name recognition, then convince as many people as possible who think you have a large network of friends that you're the first person you've spoken to about who you voted for (tricking them into thinking they'll get a large number of points). The originator of the largest 'club' (or some lucky person who happened to vote before them for the same candidate) should win.
Pharaoh: You see how many points you're going to get (should that person win) beforehand.
Pharaoh: Though maybe that information should be hidden - changes the strategy if so, hmm.
Pameow: Can you be king if you are not registered for the test?
Pharaoh: Yes, I think so.
Yendor: here's the problem. If I see that I win 100 points if I vote for XXX but only 1 point if I voe for YYY, I know that YYY is far more likely to win
Pharaoh: Right. And so it's almost certainly a waste to do that 1-point vote.
tat2mikki: Can you please explain how YOU see this being a test for the Leadership discipline Teppy?
Pharaoh: Because I think that leaders will be able to convince many people that their chosen candidate will win. It's a Test about swaying people's expectations, which is a quality of a Leader.
Lindie: just like the coalition, its better to get 1 point on a winner than hoping to get 100 points with a loser
Yendor: Well, 1 point is better than the 0 Iwould get for XXX
TheMazeEcho: Leadership, while close sometimes to Politics, isn't the same thing. And I feel this test being much more about Politics than Leadership.
Otter: vote for otter
tat2mikki: I agree Maze
Telanoc: Can you pass more than once?
Pharaoh: No
Pharaoh: Well, you can't be King more than once. Whether you can pass more than once is an open question. (Certainly points should reset to 0 on a win.)
BalourHotho: Does your vote count once you've passed?
Lindie: it sounds like its going to be another coalition type test
Pharaoh: Do you like Coalition?
Telanoc: No
Lindie: its ok, rather boring waiting till the final hour to pick a coalition though
Sqatsi: Coalition is not the worst leadership test only because of True Leadership.
TheMazeEcho: Coalition has been warped, nowadays, people will build a coalition and others will go to the one that's best fitted to their planks, but few are adjusting along the time
Pharaoh: Checking to see how Coalition ranks in the survey.
Pharaoh: It's one of the lower-ranked Tests - 38 out of 45.
TheMazeEcho: what about the other Leadership tests?
Pharaoh: Checking.
Pharaoh: Guesses for #45?
Yendor: Out of curiosity, what are #1 and #45?
TheMazeEcho: TL
Pharaoh: Right
Korrin: true leadership
Pharaoh: And guesses for #1?
TheMazeEcho: do you really think people are taking the survey, after the initial release of it?
Pharaoh: 60 responses to Coalition.
Yendor: Life?
Lindie: temple
Pharaoh: Test of Life is #9
Pharaoh: Funerary Temple is #30
TheMazeEcho: Acro would be 1
Pharaoh: Acro is #2
Pharaoh: Er, sorry...
Pharaoh: Acro is #6
TheMazeEcho: then cicada
tat2mikki: cicadas
Sqatsi: Cicada
Pharaoh: Cicada is #1.
Telanoc: Safari?
Pharaoh: That's #2
Pharaoh: #44 is one of my favorites - Demi-Pharaoh :)
Pharaoh: Checking Leadership Tests...
Telanoc: What is the highest placed leadership test?
TpcT: Without any consequence or responsibility for the king, convincing people to vote for someone seems like a very hollow display of leadership. Beyond being manipulative, is there any potential to display progressive leadership tied to ethics or morals (for good or bad) in this test?
Pharaoh: We need to discuss what it means to be King. In fact that's the #1 thing we must discuss, but I want to look at rankings of other Leadership Tests.
Pharaoh: Highest ranked Leadership Test is Covered Cartouche, amazingly...
Pharaoh: At #35!
Pharaoh: Then Coalition at #38...
Pharaoh: Bureaucrat at 39.
Pharaoh: Demi-Pharaoh at 44 and True Leadership at 45.
Pharaoh: Body is the highest ranked Discipline.
Pharaoh: (5 of the 6 top Tests)
Pharaoh: Then Architecture, as I'd expect.
Harere: something that is highly gameable or has a low pass rate I would expect to have a low rating
Pharaoh: Yes
Deeva: This new test sounds far better suited to the discipline of Harmony than of Leadership, imo
Pharaoh: Depending on what it means to be King, I could see it fitting in Harmony.
Pharaoh: Due to the predicting component.
Pharaoh: The reason this Test appeals to me is that while I have a strategy that I think might work, I really don't know how it will end up being played...
Pharaoh: And so that's a pretty interesting thing usually.
Galleon: maybe a purpose of every King can be to take a noticeable place in his country history - like building most impressive pyramid or something else?
tat2mikki: It's still a Test of numbers and timing, more like Souls (pick couples no one else will pick) and Prophet (pick someone who will do good on tests).
Telanoc: Body is non-comforntational even if competitve, and there are the rather direct benefits to passing the tests
Pharaoh: Ok, so benefits to being King...
Baldur: speaking of interesting actions from the playerbase. do you get any results from your social experiments?
Pharaoh: Yeah - I'll be discussing them during Tale 3 Amnesty.
Yendor: Here's how it *might* be interesting. Make being a king very highly desirable, so that people are actively campainging for it. The early voters would then possibly be campaign managers and such
Pharaoh: What if a King had DP-like powers, but not bans.
Pharaoh: Some other sort of punishment...
Lindie: if you make it become a test where its really good to be king, then alot of the focus will become to be elected king and then the test will become like the dp test
Pharaoh: Here's one: "Ability to fine people, where they can't use Chariot stops until they pay the fine."
Sqatsi: Make the king have powers that benefit others, and not the king
Pharaoh: Ok, how about...
Pharaoh: "King can bless everyone in his vicinity once per hour, and the blessing is +1 to every stat for one hour.
Morrigan: Maybe a king should be entitled to privileges - like every female avatar he meets would ahve to belly dance for him?
Lindie: im getting confused what is the point of the test? to become king or not to become king
Pharaoh: You pass the Test by having a record of voting early for those that go on to become King.
Tammy: LOL Morrigan
Ariella: I like that ability
MouseD: now that sounds nice +1 on all stats for the full rein of the person who is king
Pharaoh: Have we overdone stats-as-a-bonus though?
Tammy: To not become king - BUT.. being on the ballot is a punishment of sorts for that player as they are nowt able to participating in the voting thereby not being able to accumulate points that round
Dano: the highest pointmaker... the Kingmaker should get the bonus.. not the king
Pharaoh: Exactly. Becoming King has nothing to do with passing the Test.
Lindie: but rewarding the king makes me wonder whether its better to become king than just vote for someone else to become king
Deeva: HOW is that in ANY WAY leadership? Prediction is the province of Harmony, not Leadership.
Pharaoh: If you play the Test that way then I'd agree that it's more a Harmony Test - but I suspect (?) that influence will be more important here.
Pharaoh: But again, it's not so straightforward I think - and therefore has a high liklihood of being an interesting Test.
Pharaoh: BTW, in the "flash election" I did - nobody was elected - all candidates got 1 vote.
Pharaoh: So if there were, say, 3 winners, then a bit of scheming would definitely have helped.
Lindie: but it will become more organized when people have the wiki to post their voting on
Ahakamin: Isn't that a poor test considering the powers/benefits of kinghood aren't solidified? Wouldn't those influence the outcome?
Deeva: I think the leadership aspects of a leadership test should be more than implied by how it is played, though. The test should elicit something, task some skillset, or somehow relate...rather than be simply a possible reflection of a possible leadership skill.
Harere: i will be come the test of voting for an existing dp, and hoping that you voted early enough and enough other people voted for the same dp that cycle
Tammy: Lindie - what I am understanding is that you have no choice in who is on the ballot - those ppl are jsut randomly chosen
Pharaoh: No - everyone in Egypt is "on the ballot".
Lindie: right tammy but people will post it on the wiki, and it will become organized just llike everyother test
Lindie: and 10 minutes before the test ends ill go to the wiki pick the person with the most votes and vote on that person
Sqatsi: Bureaucrat without siezures
Pharaoh: Are seizures a concern with Bureaucrat currently?
tat2mikki: Not if you don't hire Pameow :
Nchanter: No.
Pharaoh: Here's a thought...
Pharaoh: What if you could switch votes - how does that change the nature ofthe Test?
Harere: several bureaus have been seized duringthe tale, one just a month ago
Pyx: from what I'm seeing so far, it's more a popularity contest with the test pass to those who more accurately predict the "in crowd"
Yendor: They don't *occur* very often (3 times?) but they are a *conern*
Nchanter: I don't think you're listening to the fact that while you might like this idea, and how it could play out, the people of egypt are telling you that there is NO INCENTIVE to play it out the way you think it should be done. Just like coalition, it becomes a test of numbers, of math, and it completely un-interesting. If cartouche is really your ideal leadership test, shouldn't you be trying to duplicated the type of plotting that it makes people do?
Pharaoh: A different type of plotting.
Lindie: teppy why dont you do a simple ballot and give 2 options lousy test or good test
Nchanter: People aren't going to plot. I tried playing coalition the way you suggested. It doesn't work unless EVERYONE plays that way, and people care more about the test pass and "winning" than playing the game.
Myna: Why do we need another popularity test, I completely agree with Pyx, just another "in crowd" item
Phanotux: You have to know the final details of the test before you could do that..
Harere: if you allow people to switch there votes, a person who switches is shooting for the guarantte of a couple of points, rather than the lower likelihood that they will get a lot of points
Ahakamin: That's probably because of levels...
TheMazeEcho: the reason all Leadership tests are in the bottom quarter IS because of the plotting. People come here to play in collaboration, not to fight each other
Harere: right not in coalition, the coalition owners rarely adjust thier planks and many people go coalition hunting on the very last day for best points
Yendor: The first time I tried playing coalition as intendedn, and wound up with 4 base points. The second time I built and changed NO planks, and passed
Athiria: I agree with pyx to .. thiers far to many popularity contests as there is .. don't we suffer enough of them in the real world with out them here to
Pharaoh: Ok, let's do a quick poll. I'm not going to go by a strict 50% sort of thing, but it will help me decide whether to finish this Test as designed, make some changes, keep brainstorming, or scrap it.
Pharaoh: One sec.
Pyx: Can we use this opportunity to constructively brainstorm what elements we would like to see in a leadership test, which, as Deeva suggested, should require a demonstration of LEADERSHIP, not backstabbing scheming, to win.
Pharaoh: Sure.
Pharaoh: So far with 33 responses...
Pharaoh: 17 say don't do it, 8 say with further brainstorming could be fun, 2 say fun release it.
Pharaoh: (4 didn't listen, 2 don't persue leadership)
Pharaoh: Ok, so let's scrap it for now.
Nchanter: Yea, leadership that is not popularity contest would be... amazing
Pharaoh: Ok, let's see if we can come up with something like that - at least the kernel of an idea - in the next 10-15 minutes.
Pharaoh: For the next few minutes I'm going to only post specific Test ideas and mechanics, not general things like "Ideally, leaders are people who..."
Otter: run on a platform but no one knows who's ideas they are.blind campaigning
Pharaoh: Otter's comment is an example of what I want to post. It's not a complete Test description, but it's an actual mechanic.
Pyx: perhaps an element of work that requires social interaction and gathering people to yourself, such as we see in bureau and cartouche?
Myna: can we change the focus of leadership tests to something like the construction of pyramids and the co ordination of help required to ahieve goals for the benefit of all?
Pharaoh: No.
Harere: *** Teppy, I must honestly say that this could be worked into a replacement harmony test for T4 if harmony as a dicipline returns. But make the King have a useful and beneficial power that would make people want to be king and to have good kings. :)
Pharaoh: Yes, thinking along the same lines.
Pameow: the test of the hotel... you need to encouage players to saty in it for 8 hours... bonus of some tt if they do
Pharaoh: I'll take that as a half-joke, but I posted it because it's an actual mechanic. :P
TheMazeEcho: A good Leadership Test idea was the Test of the Plantation, proposed as T2 Legacy. It has trust in your followers, and a good amount of leadership (of course, some popumarity always takes part).
Telanoc: How about something like where people have to give you crafted item, with a non-trivial, but no excesive cost. Most collected in a period passes
Pharaoh: Could you find a URL, TME?
Yendor: For T4 a modified version of a coalition. Coalition builders set planks as they will, Eygpt-wide election, and you win points based on how many of your planks "win"
Pharaoh: Other Test mechanics?
Sqatsi: Some benefit comes to winning, that gets distributed by the winner amongst the people supporting him
Lindie: thats like that one test where people collected coupons (cant think of the name)
Pharaoh: Patronage.
Pyx: what about staging "games" like Tat did over thanksgiving with votes for the person who stages the games with the most participants or positive votes? Similar to caesars pacifying the crowds in the collisseum
Pharaoh: That's what True Leadership tried to do. The problem was that it's so incredibly hard to quantify something like "Staging a Game" (who did the staging.)
Deeva: Also, the URL you asked for, Teppy:
http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale2/Users/Sedelyan/The_Test_Of_The_Plantation
Pharaoh: I'm getting a lot of "A leader is a person who ... " type comments. For the next few miutes I'm only posting game mechanics.
Pharaoh: Otter suggested a game mechanic, Telanoc suggested one, Squats almost did, Pyx did.
Pyx: if you staged a game, we could nominate people to hold games (whittle down the playing field to maybe 20 people) and let the players themselves choose whether to unite behind a leader in factions or go for the win themselves... A winner would either have LOTS of friends who helped him or her win by staging the best games or expended a massive amount of personal mats to do so...marketing, hype, delegation of authority... all elements of leadership
Bramblebrae: random groups picked across egypt- from players active within that week-the group have to 'do' something together - not resource intensive and not too time intensive but more cooperative than anything - first group to complete task all get points - test passed when set number of points reached- trying to think of idea of what they 'do' though- perhaps a relay type run collecting a set item from a set location and handing over to team mate at a second set location etc- would all have to be consist leader to gain points in each changing group and so eventaully pass
Pharaoh: That's a good framework Bramblebrae, but I'd consider it Worship.
Gentry: ooo ooo.... a test where there is a fixed percentage of passers at any one time, where you must cotinue to accrue approval in order to maintain you test passage
'
Gentry: so the test base might be 0 at the start of a tale, but 10000 at the end... you can never have more than 10% of the participates actually pass the test, so you may "pass" early in the tale, but if you don't maintain you may "fall out" of the pass group over the course of the tale
Gentry: the criteria for "maintaining" is then based on what egypt considers to be example of leadership
TpcT: perhaps a group of anonymous people without the capacity to identify themselves, but the ability to form complicated gestures that can be followed
Pyx: interesting, TpcT...can you flesh that out?
Pharaoh: Yes, that is interesting.
Bellah: to add to telanoc's idea, maybe we make groups like DP, but large groups. and have those go to a meta group?
Harere: working with Bramblebraes thought, may be all the groups get the same task, but the tasks are bit more complicated and require leadership and organization and delegation to be accomplished
Lindie: 50% of the population is selected as a voter, nobody knows who is an actual voter but everyone can vote but not everyone actually counts, at the end of 7 days the top 7 people who received votes are eligible to be king, and everyone in egypt picks one of the seven who they think has the most votes and the people who choole right win
Pharaoh: Would you know if you are an actual voter?
Lindie: no nobody would know who can vote
Pharaoh: I think statistically that's identical to a straightforward election.
Pharaoh: But it's an actual mechanic, unlike most comments, so that's good.
Lindie: the gamble comes in at the end when you have to pick one of the 7 top
Pharaoh: Quick informal poll - what did everyone think of the Werewolf event done last ('06) Halloween, and a time or two since?
Lindie: if you pick the top person you win 100 pts
Lindie: 2nd top winner you get 50 , 3rd 25 pts
Pharaoh: Ah, I see.
Deeva: as a test i think it would be awful
Deeva: as an event its interesting
TpcT: for example, a group of 7 people find themselves in a zone where they can't identify each other, but can communicate with a dictionary of say 100 words (translated into 3 languages). The task could be to build (arch), coordinate (like worship), gather (body), design (thought/art), or some combination of them
Pharaoh: Ok, so let's go back to a less moderated format. Some of the non-gameplay mechanic omments first...
Gentry: I am curious if anyone could give a real-world example of leadership that isn't a popularity contest?
Phanotux: Lets start from basics...a leader is a person who directs another's conduct or course of life. Now fit it into the game...
Gentry: symbiotic tests where, in one test you pass with other players assistance, and in the other you pass by assisting others
Deeva: Lead tests should task leadership skills: Organization, People Wrangling, Communication, Patience and a strong liver.
Yendor: Slightly off base, bt perhaps the person who donates the most items to research (withc a scaling factor giving fewer points to icommon items)? Or most donations *outside* your home region?
Myna: well then a test that rewards the person who leads a particular game principal without actual merit for themselves, it would need to reward those who he/she leads first and then possibly has a final benefit to the leader themself?
Harere: the problem with a blind campaign is that it will quickly become sighted, either via the wiki, guild chats or other outside the game mechanics. BUT we still love Otter :)
tat2mikki: hated WW
Gentry: I think I see the problem with kingmaker... it is much the same as DP... making a king will ALWAYS be a popularity contest, the game becomes compelling when there is the ability to UNMAKE a king, and consequences associated with that (insofar as leadership is concerned, this lends an air of accountability)
TpcT: the goal might be to express ones own strengths and/or identify others' strengths and coordinate a task
Lindie: and nobody actually knows who has the most because in the beginning only half the people were actual voters
Lindie: ok it was an idea, at least it was a testworthy idea :P
Harere: I like TpcTs idea, what would make that work is if it happened at a scheduled interval and all of the formed goups happened at the same time and had the same tasks, and their only form of communication with eachother was a clickable word interface
2
Pharaoh: Easy to get around in IRC
Pharaoh: Or am I missing something important?
''Sarisei: Can you make it so no one can speak in IRC at that designated time?
Pharaoh: Impossible.
Yendor: With a resaonbnle size group, it's jhightly likely at least one won't be on IRC
Pharaoh: But the people in the group could just say to IRC: "Anyone here in a guild with Yendor? Could you get a message to him?
Harere: if every group formed has the same tasks, then would you spend your time trying to identify the other group members or would you spend your time trying to get the tasks completed first
TheMazeEcho: IRC or wiki can be used for working around most Tests difficulties
Deeva: If you made it part of of the test's release that you considered that cheating...they'd at least be less public about it.
Yendor: Maybe hidge guild/private chaat during the test?
Gentry: the more we talk about it the more it sounds like a worship test =D
tat2mikki: but then you've got RL phones etc...easy enough to get around the "non communication" if one wants to badly enough. Would open the test up wide for "gaming".
Gentry: right now leadership tests are one way... you cross the line and *poof* you are a "leader", that border needs to be more porous
Obol: A test that when you sign up u get a unique capability, the object is to organize enough people with different unique capabilities to accomplish a project, the group passes if they accomplish their project first
Harere: at the start of the daily test period, you would get an op in dialog, so that only people online would be grouped
Gentry: can you possibly turn water into wine?
TpcT: With random groups and a time limit it may take too much time to identify a person.
Myna: Many don't use IRC, make it that they can't access it during the time frame
JemGirl: but its easy enough to set up a chat room in IRC so that is not good
JemGirl: you can also have them jjoin TS and that is like IRC too
Bramblebrae: in my suggestion main point was that the group thats going to win will be most organised therefore have strong leader or leaders within it - because random - no popularity going on- the DO part does need work on it - I dont see how its worship - i do get that worship is about organising and coordinating but within the worship tests there genreal are those who take the lead - but the actual test of worship dont give those perople/persons more chance of passing thatn the others - what i pruposed was maybe similar in coordination BUT the test passers would be the leaders as they would be the ones in the groups that gain more points every week consistently
TpcT: I'm picturing something like Wepwawet for the task.. with equalized skills and access to materials.
Myna: well that is only an issue for the US player bases, outside of US people don't communicate via telephone due to the costs
Pyx: what if you wouldn't know who the other players were, period... emerge to the play forum in a neuter "secret" avatar like blue, red, green, black...
Myna: Gaming is a well recognised fact. Why worry about it, seems almost impossible to stop in certain areas. Those of us who can't use such tactics just have to learn to progress and live without it!
Harere: in tpct's idea, the group of seven does not know who each other are and their test chat would name them as players A, B, C, D, E, F, G... Not by thier real names. disable the main, disable clicking on another to open a new chat, and they can only use the clickable chat interface to chat in the test chat tab.
Pharaoh: Ok, so let me try to tweek Bramble's idea..
Pharaoh: You get a popup saying "here is a list of 7 people. Get as many of them to show up at the Karnak U Leadership as possible, at 7:00PM"
Pharaoh: Is that the essence of the Test?
Phanotux: How about a double blind test? First round everyone votes for someone...write in ballot only. The top 7 get voted on by number, ands we have no idea who the 7 numbers represent. You simply pick a number. The winner becomes winner by random selection...just like in real life sometimes... :)
Pharaoh: "Test of the Meeting"
Bramblebrae: the essence of it yes
Morrigan: sounds like a lottery to me.
Myna: interesting
Lindie: that would be great if there were more than a handful of people on at anyone time
Deeva: That would suck if mules were on the list
Phanotux: Yep, the Test of the Lottery
Bramblebrae: but of course more complex to involve someone taking the lead and over longer time period so not hindered by people not being on 'as' much- i was thinking of soemthing that took days rather than one off event
Pharaoh: Ok, so "show up at Karnak UoL anytime within the next 72 hours" ?
''Myna: maybe that would be seen as encouragement to check in and participate more
TheMazeEcho: yes, that would account for the different time zones, which will be a problem if the groups are random
Harere: just meeting people is too much of the luck of the draw getting people that are actually online during the test period
Pharaoh: True, but if scores were accumulated over several such periods, the randomness element would be blunted.
Pameow: I wasn't joking about the hotel, how easy do you think it is to get people to log off far from a camp or chariot?
Bramblebrae: did nclude in first 'draft' that would be 'active' players only- logged in within set time pre test starting
Pharaoh: Only including active players is doable.
Baldur: bit late to mention. but test of the host was actually a good leadership test... make an event and get people to come and stay for a while
Yendor: Actually, a modificiation: You see 7 people idenfitied by letters. The only way you have of communicating is with an iconic interface. earn points by guessing / figuring out the name of your team
Pharaoh: Well, I still have Test of the Host. Could release that.
Deeva: Can we re-examine Plantatin?
JemGirl: test of host was too easy to pass
Bramblebrae: so not joeblogs whose still paid but not logged in for 40days etc
Pharaoh: I need to head out soon - Pluribus and Bellah are leaving early in the AM and heading back to Chicago, so I need to powwow a bit with them before they go.
Deeva: I've given the link, but here it is again:
http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale2/Users/Sedelyan/The_Test_Of_The_Plantation
Pharaoh: I'm going to read over Test of the Plantation though...
Pharaoh: From the ideas here I think Bramble's is the most quantified. We'd need to chat about it more, so let's continue this discussion in a few days. (Not sure what my schedule is like this weekend.)
JemGirl: Also people were doiing banquets and throwing up hosts when they really wereent host
Ariella: Yeah, I'd like see more about Plantation too
Baldur: yes. test of the host was easy. but as game mechanics it was very good. I'm sure thats one who could be brushed up a bit
Harere: well just meeting people sounds too easy, there should be some sort of task involved
Pyx: perhaps we can review that Plantation test and the others discussed and reconvene with you here, Pharoah? Before the test is worked further?
Pharaoh: For now, Pharaoh out - thanks, all!