Chat discussing what occurs in the above screenshot
Sun-Aj: if you max all for starters then there is only a handful of conversions that can happen
Sun-Aj: it's due to lack of available resources (other vitamins)
Varius: Just the nutrient uptake, not the conversions
Sun-Aj: and what happens is especialy easy to find if the asc uptake is unhidden
Sun-Aj: so try telling me what happens on the first tick of the left screenshot :) in the order of them happening
Varius: okay tick 1 left
Varius: We lose 10 each of nutrients
Sun-Aj: yep
Varius: 10 Nit > Asc
Sun-Aj: yes
Varius: 10 Pot > Bio
Varius: That leave 10 Pot > Car
Sun-Aj: yep :)
Sun-Aj: right now from the looks of it
Sun-Aj: it would seem like we get 2 bio and 3 of the rest
Sun-Aj: that's due to the trunkating
Sun-Aj: now compare this to the screenshot on the right, first tick again
Sun-Aj: nothing out of these reactions is voided there
Varius: okay 10Loss
Varius: Nit > Asc
Varius: Pot > Bio
Varius: Pot >Car
Varius: Asc > Nia
Sun-Aj: yep
Sun-Aj: the conversion should be 10 asc -> 20 nia but due to only 3.3 asc being available we get 6.6 nia
Varius: Having some conversions on randomly and some not is kind of annoying becuase things don't behave the same way twice. And without a ready way to identify which are working and not it's very confusing to try and produce
Sun-Aj: yep
Sun-Aj: but i think this could be a start
Sun-Aj: 1 tick that gives the necessary info about 4 of the conversions
Sun-Aj: which is 1/4 of what we know
Varius: Certainly, and It's looking like a good way to get on the road to have a "field kit" thistle run where you can determine what is hut off that day.
Sun-Aj: yep
Sun-Aj: on the left side again
Sun-Aj: asc is suddenly not produced anymore. Can you tell me why?
Sun-Aj: (tick 3)
Varius: Either water or Oxy levels are too low for the reaction that tick
Varius: Plenty of Nit for the conversion
Sun-Aj: yep
Sun-Aj: that's how i started getting the ranges :)
Sun-Aj: then i played with both values in later tests and found out about H being the limiting factor there
Sun-Aj: this happens only if H is either 80 or more
Sun-Aj: the Pot -> Asc conversion
Sun-Aj: after that, nothing is produced. Why? There's 9 (or 9.9) nit available at the start
Varius: Beacause 10Loss is first
Varius: Nothing left after that
Sun-Aj: yep
Sun-Aj: the next ones are easily predictable using the same conversions
Sun-Aj: now what happens from 6-7 ? Suddenly all car disappears and you get more asc once again
Varius: H/O is low enough to kick in Car > Asc
Sun-Aj: yep :)
Sun-Aj: note that 9.9 car is taken
Sun-Aj: i don't know wether it transfers intp 4.95 or 5
Sun-Aj: not sure yet
Sun-Aj: with the 10 Car -> 5 Asc reaction
Varius: If it's 9.99999~ it would be 5
Sun-Aj: yep
Sun-Aj: then the next tick something changes again
Sun-Aj: you get 3.3 pyr
Sun-Aj: note that it also happens at this point on the other one
Varius: yeah
Sun-Aj: another of the conversions you can easily get by letting it simply drop down
Sun-Aj: but let's look on the other side a bit back
Sun-Aj: remember where 9 car made 5 asc
Sun-Aj: this time it makes 5 thi instead
Sun-Aj: any ideas why? (i have 2 currently)
Sun-Aj: that's the hard part :P
Varius: Yeah, when you get multi step conversions it get more muddled.
Varius: It could be Car > Asc > Thi
Sun-Aj: or it could be car -> asc -> nia -> thi if asc->nia is still active
Sun-Aj: one of the two
Sun-Aj: because asc-> nia would overrun asc-> thi due to lack of resource assuming both exist
Sun-Aj: 10 car -> 5 asc -> 10 Nia -> 5 Thi was my previous theory
Sun-Aj: but the thing is that it could be also what you suggested
Sun-Aj: this is why i put "needs more testing" after these two conversions in my page
Varius: 10 Car > 5Asc > 5Thi
Sun-Aj: could be either way
Sun-Aj: reactions that made 20 out of 10 double the amount and the ones that make 5 out of 10 make it 2 times smaller
Sun-Aj: in the end the result is the same but i can't tell which way was used to reach it
Varius: Ya know one thing I was wondering is, When you max out bio at 99.9 do conversions to Bio still happen as normal you just lose the extra or do they shut down
Sun-Aj: you just lose the extra
Sun-Aj: they keep going on like the value increased
Sun-Aj: but actually you just lose the resources spent on it and it stays at the peak
Varius: k
Sun-Aj: same for fol and whatever gets maxed
Sun-Aj: at low H / O levels you'll get 50 fol per tick >>
Varius: Yeah, just bio max is easy
Sun-Aj: during the pyr creation tick on the right side you'll also see nia decreasing by 10 and thi increasing by 20
Sun-Aj: last tick nia was not used and thi increased by 5 only
Sun-Aj: can you tell me everything happening during that tick?
Varius: That happens in tick 8 and 19, but no Thi+ on 18
Sun-Aj: maybe we'll do it together
Sun-Aj: start with predicting
Sun-Aj: first 10 is taken from everything
Varius: The nutrient uptake
Sun-Aj: this leaves you 10 nit and 10 pot to operate with
Sun-Aj: 10 nit goes to 3.3 pyr and 10 pot to 2.5 bio
Sun-Aj: let's now do what the program does
Sun-Aj: start with asc
Sun-Aj: is anything active that creates it?
Varius: Yes
Varius: At least the spike in Nia indicated it
Sun-Aj: look at the conversions we already have ;)
Sun-Aj: 10 car -> 5 asc would be active but there is no car
Sun-Aj: only Nia and Thi are available
Sun-Aj: asc is not made
Sun-Aj: bio....you don't see getting it more than 2.5 so it's out
Sun-Aj: however
Sun-Aj: things that create car...one of them is active
Sun-Aj: 10 Thi -> 20 Car
Sun-Aj: since there's only 5 Thi available we get 10 car
Sun-Aj: Fol...
Sun-Aj: 10 Nia-> 30 Fol is not happening (determined from later reactions)
Sun-Aj: 10 thi -> 20 fol can't happen because thi is all used up
Sun-Aj: nia is not made because nia -> nia would be pointless and car doesn't transfer directly to nia
Sun-Aj: pyr is only the 3.3 from using 10 nit
Sun-Aj: now we get to conversions making this
Sun-Aj: 10 car -> 20 thi
Sun-Aj: and 10 nia -> 5 thi
Sun-Aj: 10 car that was made got also used up
Sun-Aj: so we see no car in the result
Sun-Aj: 5 thi was used, but 25 created to replace it
Sun-Aj: this was the hard part for me since i first thought it's simply 10 nia -> 20 thi
Sun-Aj: it didn't explain some things in the other tests so i had to scrap the idea
Varius: ahhh
Sun-Aj: the current theory explains these
Sun-Aj: so there was 3 reactions instead of 1, only it seemed like only 1 happened
Sun-Aj: next tick is not any better
Sun-Aj: probably looks even worse
Sun-Aj: after the nutrient uptake you get 10 pot and 10 nit again, they go for bio and pyr obviously
Sun-Aj: but you also get 10 car, 20 fol, lose 3.2 nia
Sun-Aj: and get thi in amount which is 1 or 1, something
Sun-Aj: you lose 3.2 nia because earlier you got 13.2 nia from 6.6 + 6.6
Sun-Aj: then 10 was taken away
Varius: to make the 20 fol
Sun-Aj: and you're losing the last 3.2 now
Sun-Aj: if we start at the beginning again
Sun-Aj: no asc, no bio for the same reasons as last time
Sun-Aj: car is obviously being made since it appears at the end of tick
Sun-Aj: 10 Thi -> 20 car would leave us with 20 car and 15 thi
Sun-Aj: 10 thi is used for making 20 fol
Sun-Aj: 5 thi left
Sun-Aj: 10 thi transfers into 10 nia so 5 thi makes 5 nia
Sun-Aj: so instead of 3.2 we now have 8.2 nia
Sun-Aj: now the thi conversions
Sun-Aj: 10 car -> 20 this leaves us with 10 car, 8.2 nia, 20 fol, 20 thi
Sun-Aj: 10 nia -> 5 thi turns 8.2 nia into 4.1 thi
Sun-Aj: we have left 10 car, 20 fol, 0 nia, 24.1 thi
Sun-Aj: which looks like the result displayed
Sun-Aj: hope you can follow
Varius: Yeah, It's getting deep trying to keep all the conversions in memory now. ;)
Sun-Aj: or you can just refer to the table in the wiki ;)
Varius: Yeah. I think I'm going to write the table in the wiki into a single tick conversion spreadsheet in excel tomorrow
Sun-Aj: tell me when to continue, i'll paste bits of our text together in wordpad
Varius: Gonna grab some coffee
Sun-Aj: ok :)
Varius: okay. Does all nutrient uptake happen before conversions?
Sun-Aj: yes
Varius: Or is it Asc (Uptake, conv), bio (uptake, Conv), etc.
Varius: okay lemme start over then I didn't add in the uptake properly
Sun-Aj: 69 69 at first
Sun-Aj: then 10 is taken from both and this leaves 59
Varius: 10Nit > 3.3Asc
Sun-Aj: nope
Sun-Aj: it happens when H is very high
Varius: only for water
Sun-Aj: all conditions have to be met
Varius: It's not voided, but conditionally inactive
Sun-Aj: yep
Sun-Aj: so it doesn't really happen this tick
Varius: So does Bio Uptake happen before or after Asc conversions?
Sun-Aj: bio uptake?
Sun-Aj: oh you mean 10 pot -> 2.5 bio?
Varius: nevermind. Yeah. I see my own anwser
Sun-Aj: after the asc ones
Varius: Yes. Or you would have written he chart differently
Sun-Aj: but if there's enough pot available it always happens
Sun-Aj: at 0 sun
Sun-Aj: ok let's try this again
Varius: okay, so the Pot > Bio is applied
Sun-Aj: yep
Varius: hehe
Varius: Starting over
Sun-Aj: :)
Varius: Nit > Asc is conditionally inactive
Varius: 10Car > 5Asc happens = 5/22/0/...
Varius: 10Pot > 2.5Bio happens = 5/25/0...
Varius: 10Asc > 20Bio happens = 0/35/0...
Varius: 10Pyr > 10Bio is inactive
Varius: 10Pot > 3.3Car is inactive
Varius: 10Nia > 30Fol happens but is No Nia to convert
Sun-Aj: actually it's voided
Sun-Aj: (don't remember where i got this result exactly)
Sun-Aj: but you are also correct
Varius: okay
Varius: 10Pyr > 5Nia is inactive
Varius: 10Nit > 3.3Pyr Happens = 0/35/0/20/0/9/24
Varius: The 9 might be 10 if it's 6.6+3.3
Varius: 10Fol > 20 Pyr doesn't happen
Sun-Aj: you missed some nia creating ones from the second table
Varius: Just ran through the first one so far
Sun-Aj: so far it's correct though :)
Varius: table.
Varius: Now looking for the second table ones that should be active
Sun-Aj: ok
Varius: 10 Thi > 20Car should be active
Varius: 0/35/20/20/0/9/14
Varius: 10Thi > 20Fol
Varius: 0/35/20/40/0/9/4
Varius: No Asc to convert so 10Asc > 20Nia is not needed
Varius: 10Thi > 10Nia
Varius: Only 4 available
Varius: 0/35/20/40/4/9/0
Varius: 10Car > 20Thi
Varius: 0/35/10/40/4/9/0
Varius: And then 10Nia > 5Thi
Varius: only 4 avail
Varius: 0/35/10/40/0/9/22-23
Varius: That worked!
Sun-Aj: i wonder wether this 4.1 converted into 2 or 2.05
Sun-Aj: yep
Sun-Aj: yay!
Sun-Aj: looks like you know how to do this now :)