Telanic: Hello, and welcome to the Body Monument discussion! Telanic: First, I would like to set sort of an agenda if we can. Rather than have people just shouting out "I like the Test of the Such and Such!", I think we should look at them all in order as they were added to the wiki. We will give each one a thorough going over, talk about is strengths and weaknesses, the elements we think are essential, and which elements can be modified/removed for the sake in implementation with it losing it essential flavor. Telanic: Second, while we will be voting on who is to be The Oracle at the same time, I don't believe this warrants much, if any discussion. We all have our own criteria for whom we think would make a good choice, and once we accept that we will be doing the vote, those become personal considerations. Squiranha agrees Telanic: Before we get started, I would like to take a few moments to go over the voting system we will use. I have prepared a brief primer on the Body Monument section of the wiki. Squiranha: I do have a question on the oracle vote though: can we vote for whoever, or are we sticking to the wiki list, withouth voting for those who explicitely said they're not interested? CatharsisQueen how do we know who is not interested? Telanic: I suppose we can vote for whomever, but I took it that only those people on the wiki had an interest Squiranha: some have written on the wiki page they don't want to lead the monument CatharsisQueen ok Telanic: We will be using a range voting system, which most people should be familiar with from recent Demi-Pharaoh elections. The main differences between that system and what will will use are that we will give a numeric value in the range of 0 to 99 instead of "blocks" on slider. Telanic: Also, we will have a minimum threshold of votes that must be cast for a given Test or Oracle. This threshold isn't fixed, but relative (at 50%) to highest number of votes on any of the Test or Oracles. For example, if the Test of the Big Booty receives 100 votes cast, regardless of what they are, all the other tests will have to receive at least 50 votes to be considered. Otherwise they will be counted as having "Failed the Threshold" and be discounted, regardless to what its score with the votes it did receive. Telanic: The reason for this is simple, expressing no opinion on something should neither harm nor help that thing, so we can't realistically assign a numeric value for a non-vote. This would tend to skew the rest towards that assigned value, which is not accurately representative. Telanic: Conversely, we cannot just average all the votes something did receive, as those things the received significant fewer votes would end up vastly over or under represented. For example, lets say we have two people running for Oracle, Nancy and Bob. Nancy has 100 votes cast for her, and her average is 80. Bob on the other hand has only one vote cast for him, at 100. If we were to just accept the straight average, Bob would win. However, this does not accurately reflect the "will of the people" since most people had no opinion of Bob at all. Squiranha: can't we use less numbers? 0 to 99 alway has a random aspect to it (like what's the diff between 63 and 67, hard to say) which could influence the results in case of a close call CatharsisQueen like 1 to 10? Squiranha: yes Telanic: I had thought about doing 0 to 9, but felt it wasn't fine grained enough. I am not married to 0 to 99 if people would prefer o to 9 Squiranha: or 0 to 19 Pandemonis: 0 to 99, 1 to 10, whatever, lets stick to the what is written in the wiki so we dont have to double explain the range system CatharsisQueen let's do 1 to 10 CatharsisQueen ot 0 to 9 Squiranha is about to suggest a vote on how to vote :P Telanic: I think 0 to 9 is acceptable, and it won't take much to change the wiki :) Telanic: Orchid has volunteered to collect the votes for both counts. Just leave her a chat with your votes for both which test you would like, and who you think The Oracle should be. She will give you your voter number. When it all said and done, she will post the results, including a breakdown by voter indexed by voter number. This will allow you make sure your vote was counted correctly. Fez: 0-9 or 0-99 makes no difference either way we will still get a result, Tel has spent time sorting this out and there is no reall difference which way do it, just to say 0-99 is more accurate rating system CatharsisQueen we seem in agreement Telanic: That does bring up one issue we do have to resolve, how long should the voting period be? I would think we would want a period long enough to allow people adequate opportunity to participate, but not so long we are dragging our feet. I tend to think three to five days is more than enough, this should give us enough time to choose and get the site up by next weekend. Remember that people have to visit the site twice, once to sign on and second time to confirm their support. We want to have enough time for people to do both. (and know, I don't know when the tale is ending either) CatharsisQueen maybe all weekend? BryceCicada: i think longer CatharsisQueen one week? Telanic: I was concerned just the weekend wasn't long enough BryceCicada: what about the people that are usually not on during weekends BryceCicada: like me BryceCicada: or are gone this weekend BryceCicada: i think 7 days is good CatharsisQueen one week seems fair Squiranha: until saturday, so we can start next week-end Fez: 3 days should be good, all weekend and monday, so things can be completed Telanic: How about through Midnight (Eastern/US) Friday night? Squiranha: sounds good to me BryceCicada: i have another idea of the voting CatharsisQueen works for me BryceCicada: yes sounds good Squiranha: who will be allowed to vote? only people in the guild? only students of Body? everybody? Telanic: Yes Bryce? BryceCicada: first we totall the votes, BryceCicada: then take an average for each person BryceCicada: if one person gets the most votes by more than 10, then they are the oraclt BryceCicada: *oracle Pandemonis: Initiate of Body or more should be able to vote, imo BryceCicada: otherwise for the top few players that recieve the same or clots to the same votes, we use the averages to rank them CatharsisQueen so we vote 0-9 on each oracle? CatharsisQueen or we divide up the 9? Squiranha: 0-9 for each CatharsisQueen ok Squiranha: like for DP CatharsisQueen ok Telanic: It wouldn't be that simple with the range voting, since person could recieve many low votes, indicating they don't wish them to be Oracle. Telanic: (that was to Bryce) BryceCicada: ok. Kyline: As to whom is eligilable to vote, i'd perfer people in the guild. I'd perfer it if they where students, IE people eligiable to actually take part in the monument Kyline: at least* students BryceCicada: i would like to restrict the voting somewhat, due to the many "mules" that some players use Pandemonis: I disagree with Kyline, the fact that you helped in the monument or not doesnt make you more or less opinionate on whether the test proposal sounds fun or not to you - the fact that you attempted body (so 1+ test passed ? 0+ ?) is enough, imo. Telanic: My thought on that is that I too would prefer people in the guild. It is open membership, so no one would be left out and I don't think it is unreasonable to ask people to get down and join to have a voice. like you have to register to vote in real life BryceCicada: exactly Slyfeind-Hotep: Yeah, if people are serious about participating, they'll be happy to join the guild BryceCicada: yes Slyfeind-Hotep: ...and probably already have. :) Kyline: i didn't say you have helped in the monument i said your eligable to take part in the monument (ie passed 1 body test) Squiranha: when announcing the vote we can simply add that they need to join the guild, but I too thik it should be guild members who vote CatharsisQueen agreed Kyline: if you look at the calender for this event it says if you want to take part in the discussion come and join th guild ... Telanoc: Does anyone wish to pitch "Going Postal"? CatharsisQueen: postal is nice but I don't get how you pass CatharsisQueen: and it sounds really hard to code Letsnow: I liked the idea of going postal CatharsisQueen lol Letsnow: Creates some contact between players BryceCicada: i wondered how it would be coded also CatharsisQueen I like how it diminishes sculptures and such near the cs Slyfeind-Hotep: I think Going Postal is more about a request for secure trade than it is a test idea. Spicy: I like going postal too, though I think its at least as much a harmony idea as body Telanic: Ok, lets break it down. Strengths? CatharsisQueen less lag potencially Letsnow: Collecting stamps!! Who doesnt like to collect those? Squiranha: favours contacts between people,favours trading Spicy: well, it involves running about, so its body like, and running in different regions Squiranha: 37 CatharsisQueen I like it pretty well, personally Squiranha: doesn't really fit my idea of a body test though Kyline: i had some ideas to simplify parts of it Letsnow: You learn to know ppl's camp locations which makes it easier to meet later ingame Aloca has changed rank and become an Initiate. Aloca has joined the guild. Kalmkitty: welcome Telanic: Welcome Aloca Aloca: thank you CatharsisQueen it would be a good test if we truly had the big map change as rumored Kyline: welcome aloca BryceCicada: i kinda agree, other than running and moving about it's almost more harmony than body Slyfeind-Hotep: Collecting stamps does sound fun CatharsisQueen because we will have more citites Squiranha: it's running to a specific location though, not running to look for something Telanic: Ok, from what I hearing, people seem to like the idea, but it might be a better fit for Harmony than Body CatharsisQueen cities* BryceCicada: that is my thought CatharsisQueen perhaps, yes CatharsisQueen I agree Slyfeind-Hotep doesn't particularly like it overall, though. :) Pandemonis: agreed Squiranha: I like the idea of having a postal system, not so much making it into a test Slyfeind-Hotep: Yeah, agreed Squir Kalmkitty: yes i agree Squir Telanic: I tend to agree Squir, it is great feature request Ouijdani: Postal system needs a test, or it will get a physics veto Myna: I agree with Squir that a postal system should be a game feature, not a structured test. CatharsisQueen yeah, I still don't get the passing element Spicy: you just collect more stamps by delivering more post I think, to pass? Slyfeind-Hotep: And Teppy has said he's not fond of automated trade, so I don't know if he'd go for it. Ouijdani: no test makes it too much like automated trade Myna: Keep in mind that the legacy test will probably not be coded until well after the telling and most players have established themselves. I can't believe that people undertaking the test will suddenly remove any existing stash chests. Some may, but the general consensus seems to be "why bother - might need it later" Slyfeind-Hotep: I totally agree, Myna Slyfeind-Hotep: good point Telanic: That is a good point Myna CatharsisQueen brb Telanic: Any further thoughts on "Going Postal" or should we move on? BryceCicada: lets move on please Kalmkitty: move on Telanic: Ok, next we have "The Test Of Buried Tokens". My thoughts are it is very similar to cicadas, which is a great test, but we don't need or want two of them Squiranha: scoring and passing too close to cicada for me BryceCicada: to me it sounded like a cross between artifacts and cicadas, and too similar to both of them Ouijdani: agreed, nice idea but a lot like cicada Telanic: We could of course swap it in for cicada, change things up for a test that has been around a while. BryceCicada: might be a replacement for cicada but not an additional test CatharsisQueen I don't want a replacement for cicadas! CatharsisQueen I like that test Ouijdani: everyone does Telanic: As do many people Letsnow: Same like cicada and i dont want to change cicada CatharsisQueen yes, too similar to tests already there Myna: One thing I have always really liked about Body is that most of the tests can be completed by a solo player with little or no need for help from others. I think this test ruins that appeal by requiring you to work in groups. CatharsisQueen I vote no BryceCicada: i vote not to replace cicada also Telanic: Yes Myan, Body is the refuge of the soloer Kyline: aye i like the fact you can solo body too Kalmkitty: i vote no to replacement Telanic: Ok, so to sum up "Not a bad idea, but too much like a well beloved test" BryceCicada: yes Pandemonis: Pretty though to solo banquet, buty lots of people say its not body :) CatharsisQueen let's move on Myna: yes, Feast for the Senses is the exception :) Kyline: banquet i haven't attempted yet ~_^ i really dislike the fact i gotta get 7 perc before i can START a test Telanic: Alright, next we have "The Red Road" CatharsisQueen which is more of a worship test Squiranha: Red Road is more worship if anything Slyfeind-Hotep: Yeah BryceCicada: yes i agree Slyfeind-Hotep: I like the history of it though. Squiranha: definitely not the solo explorer kind of test for body Myna: ack, sorry folks, I got mixed up here. My comments about the previous actually applied to Red Road Myna: ack, sorry folks, I got mixed up here. My comments about the previous actually applied to Red Road Telanic: Not seeing a lot of love for Red Road here CatharsisQueen nope Pandemonis: Good falvor, good fun for Red Road - but it should be done in Events, not as a test. Ouijdani: Idea is nice but it feels worshipy Spicy: I don't understand red road CatharsisQueen that would be a fun event CatharsisQueen but def not body Ouijdani: it's a relay race, eh? Squiranha: if we got a better event managing mechanism, that would be a good event BryceCicada: think consensus is not a good fit for body Telanic: I did try to pitch a relay race event once, got shot down, but I digress Squiranha: we could even creat a Red Road League and have regular races or something, but I don't really see it as a test Telanic: Ok, it would seem clear this is not a favorite, so lets move on CatharsisQueen I like this next one CatharsisQueen combines a rare event with a test Telanic: Right, that is "test of the lycanthrope" Kyline: it sounded interesting Telanic: I might add Teppy made a postive comment about this one in the forums Ouijdani: I like the fundamental idea, but I'm concerned that the complexity will make it hard to balance Ouijdani: much like leavened bread turned out to be CatharsisQueen I hope not BryceCicada: yes CatharsisQueen not a good test, there Squiranha: plus, it relies on other people being online, again not the typical solo aspect of Body, plus could get heavily influenced by fluctuating player numbers Kyline: sounded pretty easy to game tho? Greenish: i think it's more leadership, or even harmony. again no a soloer test Telanic: My experinece with Leavened Bread was once you went through the pain of getting the bread baked, passing was a breeze Slyfeind-Hotep: I love lycanthrope personally...though it is a bit complex Slyfeind-Hotep: If it can be simplified a lot, I think it would be great CatharsisQueen this was probably my favorite of the bunch Ouijdani: exactly what I mean Tel, not well balanced BryceCicada: me 2, if it could be tweaked, might be one of the better tests Ouijdani: hugely complex up front then trivial at the end Asheara: not doing the discussion on e!? Telanic: Ok, so we have some traction on "test of the lycanthrope". How could we tweak it make it better? CatharsisQueen oh lord, not my forte Squiranha: if I think at the werewolf event we did, the main probelm was having to run around chasing people Telanic: People online is always going to be a problem, anything that needs more than half a dozen people at once is a bear BryceCicada: exactly CatharsisQueen ah, true Squiranha: and even more if it's not someone you tried to coordinate with, but just someone you have to find online when you're on too Slyfeind-Hotep: Yeah, I like running around chasing people, but if they're not online...then meh CatharsisQueen could we simply do more of these events? Telanic: With that, my concern would be that the test become impossible later in the telling as there are less people around and people start passing out CatharsisQueen I was never able to be online for this event Kyline: hmm or easier? Aloca: If you find the master werewolf that spawns you can solo this test Kyline: aye CatharsisQueen ooh an NPC? CatharsisQueen that would be cool Pandemonis: IMHO, the Lycanthrope needs to be completely rewritten from scratch and take advantage of the fact that body is a soloer discipline (ie. you call NJ at KArnak, xy, y just to eat the guy, etc.) Kyline: you get made into a ww and then 7 days later after no one cares to catch you you'd pass? Aloca: form there all you have to do is get away with some feeding CatharsisQueen I vote for an NPC to be the werewolf Slyfeind-Hotep: Yeah, the most successful tests aren't so convoluted. DK is, eat some shrooms, for example...and that's it Pandemonis: There wont be any NPC CatharsisQueen that way they would be online Pandemonis: you could become a werewolf by harvesting some "contaminated" plant, for example. Telanic: Ok Aloca, since it is your design, why don't you give us some of your thoughts on the design? The whys and wherefores CatharsisQueen ooh fun Pande BryceCicada: i think that is a fun idea, Pande CatharsisQueen I like it Aloca: I think that the idea does need to be looked at Greenish: "tainted mutton" etc for slaughtering animals who have been fed on perhaps? CatharsisQueen or not fed for too long Ouijdani: Randomly, Pande? (I'm not really in favor of random test triggers) Pandemonis: I think it needs complete revamp, but thats just me. :) CatharsisQueen I liek the herb idea better BryceCicada: since we all collect wood and herbs that would be a good idea i think Pandemonis: Ouij: at first, yes, then set by various werewolves. Squiranha: but I don't want to be dragged into a test if I don't want to Telanic: I think the test has some merit, and I can see it replacing Banquet for the social aspects. Ouijdani: but I would know that it was contaminated and have the choice not to take it? Pandemonis: I would actualyl see a werewolf test as a RvR test, where the top 7 of each realm would get the zap or something Aloca: I wrote in the idea of the wolfbane cure, you don't need to stay a werewolf if you don't want to Pandemonis: peasants hunts werewolves, werewolves hunt peasants, people can "swap" team (fed on, lynched, etc.), CatharsisQueen kind of like a massive scale "You're IT" game Pandemonis: Exactly CQ BryceCicada: i like that idea 2, a perm cure if u don't want to play Aloca: I do like the role playing part of the test Telanic: Ok, so we would want to add an opt-out clause? CatharsisQueen good idea Bryce Ouijdani: would be nice to have a few RP opportunities BryceCicada: yes i think so, a perm cure if u don't want 2 participate, then if u change your mind later, some way to opt back in.... 2 seperate recipies Squiranha: not a permanent opt-out, but I wouldn't like to be forced to do something for a longish period of time just because I'm doing a specific test CatharsisQueen yes, maybe for 2 weeks or something CatharsisQueen like the cabbage juice BryceCicada: cook some garlic in your kitchen to opt out for 2 weeks? CatharsisQueen lol or eat cooked garlic yeah CatharsisQueen good call Greenish: or simply "carry" garlic? Pandemonis: D'uh, silver, not garlic Telanic: Well, garlic is vampires, but close enough :) Aloca: I thought garlic is for vampires Slyfeind-Hotep: hehe CatharsisQueen ahh yes silver Squiranha: another thing I don't like is that it would force me to stay online without using nav points until a certain hour to gain a point, they would reduce my freedom in the game BryceCicada: i thought garlic cause u don't cook silver in your kitchens Greenish: how about an item made from silver? CatharsisQueen but if you simply carried it you could be "out" for now Slyfeind-Hotep: Maybe make a silver necklace in a casting box CatharsisQueen true, Greenish BryceCicada: maybe a recipe to combine garlic and silver, then if u have that in your inventory, you're immune if you don't you're vulnerable CatharsisQueen or Sly Telanic: We could cast a Silver Ankh, carry it and your are safe, otherwise fair game Ouijdani: oh yes! BryceCicada: yes, good idea Tel Kalmkitty nods CatharsisQueen wonderful CatharsisQueen I love it Slyfeind-Hotep: And a warning when you sign up for the test about all that. :) Telanic: Which people won't read :) Slyfeind-Hotep: lol true Kalmkitty: yep CatharsisQueen their loss BryceCicada: :) Greenish: with a chance of losing the ankh (only one may be carried at once) when you teleport, obviously with a pop-up telling you so. BryceCicada: who reads directions? Kalmkitty: i enjoyedwerewolf asa short term event...not sure about a tale long test Spicy: why a chance to lose it? Telanic: Ok, I hearing a strong contender, with some tweaks BryceCicada: i don't like option of losing the ankh, Asheara: everyone knows you rtfm AFTER something goes horribly wrong and only if nobody is around to give you the answer BryceCicada: pain in the butt to continually make a replacement CatharsisQueen just keep the ankh Squiranha: I don't like how being a werewolf would affect my game for doing other things Slyfeind-Hotep: That's what the ankh is for Squir :) either that or don't start the test till you're ready BryceCicada: maybe have it be an advantage for certain things, like extended range for hearing cicadas, Telanic: To a point, you need to be able to be "not working on the test" Squiranha: but even if I decided to do the test, when doing it would affect my gameplay too much for my taste Greenish: ok, but make ankhs avatar-specific and requiring a random combination of gems. to put more "effort" into opting out once you have dismissed the warning while signing up :P Pandemonis: the tweaks suggested go in all directions, tho, because there is only fun flavor in this game, I dont think the test concept is really that appreciated BryceCicada: think the specifics of this can be worked out later, i think w/ tweaks would be a good test Telanic: Perhaps we could "hours of the hunt" Squir, like shroom time? Kyline: hmm midnight game time to 1am maybe Kyline: kinda makes sense to do it at midnight Kyline: and that would give a full 1hour game time to get into position to mushroom Telanic: and highsun for the peasants? Slyfeind-Hotep: Maybe opting out shouldn't be so difficult. Like, "Your lycanthropy is kicking in tonight. Will you fight it off? [Yes] [No]" BryceCicada: is that a long enough time? Kyline: yep 12noon to 1pm?, maybe 1 even ever 3 egyptian days? Squiranha: all in all, it seems to me it relies too much on other people being online and doing the test Kyline: or 12-6am, thinkint midnight to 1am is only 20 RL mins Squiranha: which could end up in guilds being formed with organised people trying to pass the test Slyfeind-Hotep: ...like most tests. ;D BryceCicada: i don't think 1 hr game time is long enough, it's only 20 min r/l time BryceCicada: don't think it should be time constrained Telanic: Well, that would be bad Squir, that is true. Helping is one thing, getting a pass because of a good organization is mighty close to "gaming" Squiranha: yes Sly, but a bunch of people waiting for midnight to cure/drink or whatever would kinda ruin the whole idea BryceCicada: i agree Squiranha: and it wouldn't be mighty close to gaming, it would be gaming :P BryceCicada: i like the ankh idea much better Squiranha: but when the mechanics of a test almost calls for it, then well... Slyfeind-Hotep: I would have thought that cicada would have sprouted a similar guild where people all coordinate cage placement and take turns passing the test, similar to Bedouins in Tale 1. That still hasn't happened, at least not in such widespread organization. Telanic: I am thinking it would be wicked fun event, as they were, but maybe to hard to morph into an actual test without creating a monster Telanic: It has happend Sly, they are just better about being discrete Squiranha: it didn't happen with cicada because 7 people taking from the same cage would get a ridicolous amount of points BryceCicada: doesn't happen w/ cicada cause only the first person taking from cage gets points the rest would get very few Slyfeind-Hotep: The rest would wait their turn. It's very doable. Slyfeind-Hotep: ...and apparently is done, according to Telanoc. Telanic: Ok, lets stay on track here Telanic: Any more thoughts on werewolf? BryceCicada: needs to be tweaked but good test CatharsisQueen ready to move on Greenish: nice event, needs a lot of tweaking to become a test. Kyline: sounds fun but honestly even as a test i'd event it... i would have it all the time every night, maybe triggered by a full moon or something Kyline: i wouldn't have it every night* Telanic: Ok, next is "The Test Of The Ritual Tattoo", which got alot of traction when talked about the other day Squiranha: may I? Telanic: go ahead Squiranha: when we (Kyline and I) came up with the idea of this test, we tried to cater for the solo/explorer type of player Squiranha: it involves finding herbs (which is very body) and knowing the map (which requires having been around a lot, also very body) Squiranha: the gem part, and the tattoos have been included to make it more than just "find that herb" and try to give a more interesting overall mechanics. But mainly it should be a test for those people who spend a lot of time running around and have gathered a good knowledge of herb spots and have seen a lot of the map, so they can find the "special" spot needed to complete the pigment. That's pretty much it Telanic: My only concern with finding the herbs is not all herbs are equal in terms or rarity. Some are so rare that it would effective kill the test for a person Greenish: i like the fact it requires different tree resin (appealing to exploration) Squiranha: that's why you only need 4 out of 7 pigments in any one list BryceCicada: maybe exclude some of the rarest of herbs? Slyfeind-Hotep: Yeah, not all herbs should be included Greenish: since you only need 4/7 pigments *and* you can change your reqs, i dont think that will be a problem Squiranha: it's unlikely you'd get 4 rare herbs in the same list, and if you did, you could go to another UBody (or wait a game month) and get another list, like banquet Asheara: is there a way to reroll if you get a particularly nasty requirement BryceCicada: trust me, if it is possible i'll get them Greenish: monthy, like banquet Kalmkitty: me too bryce Slyfeind-Hotep: I like the tattoo aspect; very fantasy ancient civilization. Telanic: True, and there are only about a dozen herbs I would call too stupidly rare to make one cry Squiranha: yes Ash, like banquet, and you can get a different list from every UBody, so really, the chances that you'd be stuck forever with an impossible list are quite small Telanic: (and by the way, I still haven't found Deadwood Tree :( ) Asheara: i found in t2 Asheara: i never found homesteaders palm Slyfeind-Hotep: I'm not too fond of the oyster shell requirement, though. I think a wood mortar and pestle would be just as good. Squiranha: well, that could be changed, I found OSM to be relatively low tech Slyfeind-Hotep: Yeah, minor point Ephemere: I'd like this test, but the marble mortar part is'nt so easy ; why not using another material for it ? Telanic: In my opinion, Tattoo is the best one we have going. I think it has the flavor of a body test, it is well developed, and wouldn't need much changing Squiranha: the main strengths of the test imo are the exploring aspects, knowing the map, the herb spots, and the trees Asheara: and it will be released late enough in the tale it shouldn't be an issue to get osm BryceCicada: i agree w tel Squiranha: it could be released fairly early, it doesn't require anything really new Slyfeind-Hotep: It does require Teppy to do some work though, which can take months. ;) Asheara: he won't release until after the player's meet BryceCicada: u can get osm very quickly in the tale Greenish: i agree, best one so far and keep the OSM requirement Kyline: player meet? Slyfeind-Hotep: Why is the marble so integral to the test? Ephemere: finding (and extracting) marble is'nt a solo activity :) Asheara: yeah shortly after the new tale begins we all (those that can and want to) meet in pittsburgh to discuss the new tale and tests in person with teppy Kyline: can trade for it, the mortar isn't the test, just an implement used in it Squiranha: I'm still undecided on the possibility to trade mortars with the herb in it. It could be a source of trade for solo explorers, but I'm not sure about it Telanic: Ok, so the marble part is a "give", something that can be ditched if needed? Slyfeind-Hotep: Yeah, it's a minor point Ephemere: if the mortar is'nt the test, make it easy to find Kyline: could be a stone mortar as well, made on a mason's bench Squiranha: yes, the marle could be ditched for something easier. But I'd really like to see the rest kept as is, especially the requirement for the "special" place. I suggested 2 things (like near water and above x feet), but I can imagine it being made even a bit harder by requiring 3 things Greenish: ok, just to be clear, do you get the mortars back after completing a tatoo? Kyline: nope Slyfeind-Hotep: The special place sounds fun to look for. Telanic: I am neutral on the marble part. It is 28 pieces of OSM, which isn't too bad, but perhaps not "body" Squiranha: you lose them when turning in the pigment, which would require 28 total mortars = 7 OSM Telanic: Oh, I agree, the "special" place has to stay Squiranha: 1 OSM makes 4 mortarrs (enough for 1 tattoo), so 7 OSM total Pandemonis: I think the "special place" is the most bodyish part of it all, you have to know a place that fits the criteria, which implies knowledge of the land. It would be the very body test that doesnt involve random mindless running but knowledge of the land (well, thats two with DN) Kalmkitty goes to her special place Slyfeind-Hotep: lol Ephemere: I agree Squi, my only limitation is the mortar :) Asheara: squir it's easy to add a 3rd like visions, add sand or grass or other terrain type Squiranha: I would even like to see the non forageable plants used for the special place, like "within view of a Velvet Hosta" or something Pandemonis: Yup, totally Pandemonis: Make it three in the design, says the Panda, and let them reqs to be rerolled at UBody like banquet menus. Squiranha: Ash, soil type should be one, then vicinity to a resource (water, trees) and maybe another one, like a specific tree, or a plant Kalmkitty: 00000000 Slyfeind-Hotep: 0_0 Asheara: well you said elevation too Kalmkitty: sorry kitten steps Squiranha: it could be elevation, just 3 random out of a list of possibilities Telanic: I think if you do soil AND resource AND plant type, it will limit the possibilities. I wouldn't like to see a map of all the special places on the wiki Squiranha: maybe make it so that soil is definitely one of them, and then either elevation, proximity to something, which could be a resource, a tree, or a building (school, uni, exp site, road, or whatever) Kyline: simple but something that requires thought and knowledge Squiranha: true Tel, I wouldn't want to see a map on the wiki, but if there's enough variety that shouldn't happen Pandemonis: or would be useless like relics, oyster, etc. Pandemonis: AFK Squiranha: but some people would need to ask the explorers out there for help locating their special place Telanic: Right, so maybe do something like "three of these five factors" Asheara: like we do now with mushrooms Squiranha: besides, if you need a place "within 50 coords of an Ash Palm", it's unlikely people would start to list all Ash Palms on the wiki Slyfeind-Hotep: I suggest we move on...we're more fine-tuning at this point Slyfeind-Hotep: and I'm hooongry Asheara: i had pancakes Slyfeind-Hotep: :P Telanic: ok, any last big thoughts on Tattoo? Slyfeind-Hotep: Sounds fun, and I like the ancient civ feel of it Slyfeind-Hotep: Makes me think of Disney's Atlantis Telanic: lol, yeah, that is what we want, Egypt to be a Disney movie :P Squiranha: I hope teppy will agree to really add the tattoos to the avatars :) Telanic: I think it is possible Kyline: i don't see why he shouldn't they can be a simple option under appearance like changing cloths Slyfeind-Hotep: Well ok, Kevin Simbieda's Atlantis if you prefer :P Kalmkitty: Love it Asheara: i like tattoo the most of them all Slyfeind-Hotep loves pancakes. Asheara: apple cinnamon pancakes Telanic: Ok, next we have "Test Of LandSailing". Thoughts? Telanic: Ok, next we have "Test Of LandSailing". Thoughts? Squiranha: lag could ruin it Slyfeind-Hotep: Eh...sounds like a request for faster travel. Greenish: could ruin cicada with the faster travel Telanic: My gut reaction when reading it was "And?" Kyline: it sounds like it could be fun.. but honeslty not sure about it as a test idea Telanic: I agree Kyline Letsnow: There is not much to do actualy Squiranha: would be very frustrating if you missed the key because of lag Letsnow: Take your cart to the desert and let you go Letsnow: turn your car and go home Kyline: yeahwhats to stop you from doing burnouts in a loop in the desert to get your speed up? Slyfeind-Hotep: ok so...this one isn't a favorite I think :) Telanic: Right, no love for land sailing Telanic: Last, we have "The Test Of The Cartographer". To me we have the kernel of something potentially interesting, but as it is, not well developed enough yet Squiranha: I like the basic idea Slyfeind-Hotep: Sounds fun, but it's really just a game mechanic right now. Squiranha: as long as it doesn't turn into the Test of the Math Degree Slyfeind-Hotep: lol agreed ;D Squiranha: not that I'd mind that :) but it wouldn't be a good idea Telanic: Come on, half of Egypt seems to have a PhD in math :P Letsnow: What about one person calculates it and give the number to all his friends? Squiranha: lol Squiranha: I think that like beacons, every few days the spot you need to measure should change Slyfeind-Hotep: I don't think quality of the theodelite should matter much, or even be that expensive to make Squiranha: and not necessyrily to mountains Slyfeind-Hotep: Body isn't usually about complex tools and buildings Telanic: True Sly, Body usually has a low entry cost Telanic: I like Squir's comment about the things changing, and not always being a "mountain" Squiranha: again, to avoid a wiki map after a couple of weeks Squiranha: could just be a coordinate Telanic: Question: If we have visions, and the attended heights for things listed, wouldn't that diminish this test? Squiranha: I don't understand what you mean Letsnow: Build a chest on top of the mountain and you get the altitude Telanic: You need to find the height of something. Go to the spot, build a bonfire "Hey, this is 900 feet above sea level!" Squiranha: ah... well, didn't think of that :P Greenish: too much like "go here and do this" more like a checklist than exploring Squiranha: what about asking for distance instead of altitude? Like distance from the nearest chariot Greenish: although, in response to tel, the height data can be limited to the theodolites, with no option for manual entry Spicy: too much maths using the coords Telanic: Simple math that Kalmkitty: not for those who are coord challeneged Kalmkitty: i agree with spicy Ephemere: if you're coord challenged, you're not a body builder :) Spicy: it doesn't really sound fun, just alot of running about Telanic: What I see is "go here, build this thing, get a reading, done". Not exactly the run about and look for stuff body test Spicy: making a map of some feature would be more interesting, if you wanted to make it about mapping Kalmkitty pouts "yes I am" Squiranha: another idea with potential but lacking details for now :) Telanic: I agree Squir, lets mark it "returned for revision" for now :) Kyline: another thing i like about body is that some of the tests compliment each other... Telanic: Do you see this filling that role Kyline? Kyline: not sure, its covering teritory so it can be run with other tests at the same time Telanic: I can see your point, I am just less sure this is strong enough on its own people will wish to bother Kyline: i'm not really keen on it Telanic: Any final thoughts on Cartographer? Kalmkitty: body is brawn nnot brains ..thts why im here....erm nm Telanic: Ok, any final thoughts at all? We have covered all the test we have on the wiki Kyline: so far i like the werewolf one (with some developement of the idea) and tatoo one culloden: werewolf?.......seems ive missed alot of discussion here :( Telanic: That would reflect the overall feeling I think Squiranha: I copied it all cull, will post it later Telanic: "test of the lycanthrope" cullo Slyfeind-Hotep: Yeah, tattoo for me too, or werewolf with some work culloden: kk thx culloden: now that test sounds sweet Kalmkitty: tattoo is my fav then werewolf Aloca: I think that my idea does need some work, but running by the players, teppy and test island should balance it out Greenish: i prefer tattoo culloden: but seems a little dark agish for ancient egypt Telanic: Aloca, do you want to go over it again? Aloca: mine being the werewolf one Squiranha: I prefer tattoo, but I'm biased :P Fez: same but I really think the postal idea needs to be implimented to reduce the clutter of chests everywhere, and save having to keep running back to collect mining and farmed items Ouijdani: verisimilitude with Ancient Egypt is not a requirement for ATitD Letsnow: Removing the principle on art and thought would greatly reduce clutter culloden: post offices......im all for that Letsnow: And dont force ppl to build a statue would also Kyline: i'd love the post offices Slyfeind-Hotep: We have other systems in place for that though. ;) Post Office sounds more like a feature request hidden in a test to me. Telanic: I think they are an awesome feature request, less so a test Kyline: god yes i reckon they should decay naturally 30 days after they reach 21 votes Deeva quickly tosses in that she likes the test of the ritual tattoo best of all the ones I've seen. culloden: if youre talking about obis.........i think it should not be abandoned but instead can only be built in a certain area far away from cs Squiranha: it's called Desert Obelisk, it should be required to be built in the desert Fez: I think art votes should count either way and those that are poor will disappear as soon as they get to 21 votes culloden: i agreee with ky........lets clean up the artwork Fez: 11 poor votes and the art item gets cleared Kyline: nay i just thinkthey should be able to be pulled down (for no material gain!) after 30 days Telanic: Ok gang, we seem to have come to more or less the end of the meat of this discussion. We will of course keep the floor open for people Greenish: has it been decided whom is tallying the votes for test and oracle? Squiranha: Orchid Kyline: thinking with werewolve one Telanic: Orchid will be Greenish Slyfeind-Hotep: ok I'm out for food, back in a bit Squiranha: Orchid will be greenish... I hope she's not sick :P Kyline: to add more flavor how about doing it on a 'full' moon (ie once every RL week?) instead of every 3 days culloden: i like that ky Greenish: thanks, and lol squir Squiranha: I still have a question on the oracle vote. The census lists 38 oracles of Body, on the wiki there are 28 names, and some of them added that they are not interested. Are we voting on all 38 (if we know all the names), or only on those on the wiki who are interested? culloden: cant have werewolves without full moons......unless you subscribe to the shapeshifter theory Telanic: My inclination is to say only the 28 Squir. But can't really stop for voitng for whomever they chose culloden: have we decided that we was doing the "opt-in" thing? Squiranha: and we vote by chatting orchid a full list of names with a number between 0 and 9, right? Fez: why waste votes on the oracles that have opted out??? Telanic: That is right Squir Ouijdani: still using 0-99 for the vote, or 0-9? Kyline: poor orchid Telanic: 0-9 Ouijdani: and we vote both tests and oracles? Telanic: Yes Telanic: Be kind, and format your votes sanely please :) Letsnow: Maybe put a template on the wiki we should use? Squiranha throws away his list of names in morse code Kyline: good idea lets culloden: lol Letsnow: So everyone sends her the same chat and she can easily read them Deeva takes squir's list out of the trash Deeva: heh Squiranha: lol Telanic: That isn't a bad idea Lets, mainly I was thinking one line per entry Squiranha: it's a very good idea