ATITD Wiki: Laws/Logs/Teppylog

ENN Log

The following is a log from the ENN mic, early in the telling.

2006-06-11 17:22:25 Pharaoh: Ok, welcome all.
2006-06-11 17:22:42 Pharaoh: A real quick recap of ATITD's legal system for those new here...
2006-06-11 17:23:42 Pharaoh: Ok, so in ATITD, any Initiate of Leadership can write up a petition for a law..
2006-06-11 17:24:23 Pharaoh: A law is really a change to the game logic. I code those, on the fly, when passed by a majority of players.
2006-06-11 17:25:16 Pharaoh: So the procedure is to write up a petition like "SkyRaider shall have the power to tear down up to 20 buildings each day, at his discretion, in the Tanis Region"
2006-06-11 17:26:02 Pharaoh: Then, convince other people to click on you, "Legal" menu, and then sign the petition.
2006-06-11 17:26:40 Pharaoh: It would be up to the guy writing the law. We'll get into what constitutes a valid law in a few minutes.
2006-06-11 17:27:10 Pharaoh: Now of course there are tons of petitions out there, many more than I could ever read.
2006-06-11 17:27:16 Pharaoh: Let me count how many...
2006-06-11 17:27:44 Pharaoh: Right now there are 177 active petitions.
2006-06-11 17:28:09 Pharaoh: So, I review them in order of number of signatures.
2006-06-11 17:29:20 Pharaoh: Starting at the petition with the most signatures, I classify them as either a "bill" (eligible to be on the ballot), a feature request, a veto (in various flavors), or one of a few less commonly used categories.
2006-06-11 17:29:32 M:JumpingJax: But only if signatures are turned in?
2006-06-11 17:29:47 Pharaoh: Yes, the signature count is based on "turned in" signatures.
2006-06-11 17:30:41 Pharaoh: I stop reviewing at 21 signatures, even if the ballot wouldn't have 7 bills.
2006-06-11 17:31:26 Pharaoh: You can give copies of a petition to up to 20 friends, so any one bill can have up to 21 petitioners.
2006-06-11 17:31:33 M:Azhrei: Can you turn in the same petition again if it has gotten more signatures?
2006-06-11 17:31:42 Pharaoh: Yes, and the new ones will add to the total.
2006-06-11 17:31:59 F:Samisotet: Do you mean if they don't have 21 signatures you don't read it?
2006-06-11 17:32:01 Pharaoh: Right.
2006-06-11 17:32:32 Pharaoh: Sometimes I do read other ones just to get an idea of what's floating around.
2006-06-11 17:32:55 Pharaoh: And if a long-time player who knows the legal system well asks me to read something they're just thinking about, I'll sometimes do that.
2006-06-11 17:33:09 M:Righteous: Could/would you give us a scenario from start to finish of the process?
2006-06-11 17:33:21 Pharaoh: Yeah, I'll summarize that afterwards.
2006-06-11 17:34:20 Pharaoh: Ok, so once I either have 7 valid bills, or have classified all petitions with at least 21 signatures, the ballot is ready.
2006-06-11 17:34:35 Pharaoh: My goal (goal!) is to trigger about one ballot a each week.
2006-06-11 17:35:15 Pharaoh: The fact that a ballot is in progress is shown on the Events calendar.
2006-06-11 17:35:56 M:EldradUlthran: do petitioners who have their petition vetoed recieve this information?
2006-06-11 17:36:37 Pharaoh: Yes, there's a spot on carried petitions that shows my classification, when it happens.
2006-06-11 17:37:27 Pharaoh: Everyone votes on as many of the proposals on the current ballot as they'd like. (Most vote on all.)
2006-06-11 17:37:41 Pharaoh: And then the following happens:
2006-06-11 17:38:02 Pharaoh: 1. All bills with less than 50% votes are thrown out.
2006-06-11 17:39:07 Pharaoh: 2. If there are still more than 5 valid bills, all except the top 5, by percentage of "yes" votes, get thrown out. That means that 0, 1, or 2 bills get thrown out.
2006-06-11 17:39:31 Pharaoh: Historically, rule #2 almost never comes into play.
2006-06-11 17:39:59 Pharaoh: Then, the #1 law by percentage of "yes" votes gets implemented.
2006-06-11 17:40:20 Pharaoh: Er, should have said:
2006-06-11 17:40:34 Pharaoh: 3. The law with the highest percentage of "yes" vs. "no" votes gets implemented.
2006-06-11 17:41:08 Pharaoh: 4. Bills in the #2, #3, #4, and #5 slots remain eligible for the next ballot.
2006-06-11 17:41:22 M:Azmiuth: Could you define the term "thrown out" does that mean the petition will need to be recreated again?
2006-06-11 17:41:25 Pharaoh: Yes
2006-06-11 17:41:48 F:Samisotet: So if you do not want something to pass, you should vote "no" and not abstain?
2006-06-11 17:41:51 Pharaoh: Correct.
2006-06-11 17:42:41 Pharaoh: Abstain is the same as not voting at all. It's really only there if you accidentally clicked "yes" or "no", but really don't care one way or the other, and you want to go back to a not-voted status on that bill.
2006-06-11 17:43:18 F:Polly: it would be nice to know how many people (in percent) voted on each law and how many abstained.
2006-06-11 17:43:26 F:MomMouse: say there are 5 well written well defined petitions on the ballot and they all have exceedingly close numbers in the yes vs no votes would at any time you then consider putting more then 1 in effect?
2006-06-11 17:44:00 Pharaoh: No, I'd just allow the other to roll over. Chances are that it would make it the next round, I'd assume.
2006-06-11 17:44:11 M:JumpingJax: What would happen in 2 bills tied for #1 spot? I have used Abstain as a way not to vote on bills I wanted to pass but didn't feel were more important then something else on the ballot
2006-06-11 17:44:29 Pharaoh: That is a valid use of abstain.
2006-06-11 17:44:36 M:Azmiuth: So, in theory, two excelent bills go onto the same ballot, one is going to get lost in the system and have to start over, correct?
2006-06-11 17:45:16 Pharaoh: Only if it either received <50% of the yes/no votes cast for that ballot, or was in the #6 or #7 spot.
2006-06-11 17:45:18 F:Samisotet: Why don't the high "yes" vote bills appear in the next ballot? They seem to just disppear, though some were very good (I thought)
2006-06-11 17:45:42 Pharaoh: Would be for one of the above reasons. Bills have appeared on more than one ballot on a number of occasions.
2006-06-11 17:46:11 Pharaoh: There's one more thing to the Signature counts...
2006-06-11 17:46:39 Pharaoh: Signatures "decay", very slowly. I'll give exact numbers in a second, but here is the thinking:
2006-06-11 17:47:04 Pharaoh: Suppose a law was important at one part of the game and got a *huge* number of signatures...
2006-06-11 17:47:36 Pharaoh: And suppose it's a reasonably popular law as well, but the signature count makes it a monster.
2006-06-11 17:48:07 Pharaoh: Without decay, that law would always occupy one of the ballot slots, until the end of the Tale. *
2006-06-11 17:48:20 Pharaoh: bill
2006-06-11 17:49:10 Pharaoh: If your signature has decayed and you still support the law, you can re-sign it of course.
2006-06-11 17:49:36 M:Cappu: take the public mine law, e.g. Good law, 60%, 2nd runner up... and it was gone next time. Can you see why?
2006-06-11 17:49:47 Pharaoh: Anyone online have a copy of that law? I can look.
2006-06-11 17:50:39 M:Azhrei: So the reason none of the bills that survived the first ballot made it onto the second ballot is that they had fewer signatures than those that appeared on the second ballot?
2006-06-11 17:50:46 Pharaoh: That's likely.
2006-06-11 17:51:12 Pharaoh: But if someone has a copy of a bill that they think should have carried over, I'd be glad to look and tell why.
2006-06-11 17:51:17 M:Krankar: How many signatures approximately (based on the current figures) would be needed to get onto the ballot?
2006-06-11 17:51:47 Pharaoh: In T3 so far, I think the cutoff on the first ballot ended up being around 25, and the 2nd ballot was 43.
2006-06-11 17:51:53 Pharaoh: Just going from memory there.
2006-06-11 17:51:59 M:kitsuki: FYI public mine law didn't make it back because Archi didn't know he had to resubmit the pettion
2006-06-11 17:52:10 Pharaoh: Should be no need to resubmit.
2006-06-11 17:52:22 F:Atne: Is there a way to get rid of a law if people decide it was a bad idea?
2006-06-11 17:52:56 Pharaoh: You can just write up a petition that says "The SkyRider Tanis Cleanup Law is hereby repealed", and submit it as any other law.
2006-06-11 17:53:01 M:Clubbers: Can you explain (if I''ve missed it) why not all laws that are votes yes on by more than 50% get implemetned right away? What's the reason for that?
2006-06-11 17:53:28 Pharaoh: Because each law must be coded by me. We tried that in Tale 1, and I got months behind.
2006-06-11 17:53:44 Pharaoh: 2000 people can write good laws faster than I could ever hope to code :)
2006-06-11 17:54:21 M:Neophant: Years behind :-)
2006-06-11 17:54:33 M:Stonelion: My problem with the law system as is is that some laws should take seconds to code, while others might takes a month... and they both have the same chance on a bill...
2006-06-11 17:54:59 Pharaoh: That's true...
2006-06-11 17:55:33 Pharaoh: But typically I have to sort thru 20-40 laws to find 7 for the ballot...
2006-06-11 17:56:41 Pharaoh: Many laws are really feature requests ("I'd like to be able to sort my friends list into categories"), game ideas ("We should be able to build chests on wheels and push them around"), or physics vetos ("I'd like any hilltop of at least 500 feet to have a silver vein")
2006-06-11 17:57:32 M:Kartal: While your on that subject of legnth of time to code, will you be covereing tech vetos and other vetos during this chat?
2006-06-11 17:57:54 Pharaoh: Yes. Let me talk about feature requests first, then I'll cover vetos.
2006-06-11 17:59:09 Pharaoh: Anything that's an obvious improvement to the game interface - noncontroversial - that's a feature request.
2006-06-11 17:59:41 Pharaoh: And for those I sort of try to balance the time to code with the number of signatures.
2006-06-11 17:59:57 Pharaoh: And mix in a bit of my own analysis on how useful it might be.
2006-06-11 18:00:15 Pharaoh: I'll often code very quick ones as I sort thru laws.
2006-06-11 18:01:00 F:Atne: Could you give us an example?
2006-06-11 18:01:20 Pharaoh: Yeah, let me see if I've done any in T3
2006-06-11 18:02:38 Pharaoh: I don't think I've done any of those on the last 2 ballots. Probably during T2 I did a dozen or two dozen I'd guess.
2006-06-11 18:02:51 F:MomMouse: would you please give us an example of a well written petition and explain why you would say it is so?
2006-06-11 18:03:00 Pharaoh: Sure...
2006-06-11 18:05:50 Pharaoh: "Elders in a person's primary guild may take materials from any chests owned by that person"
2006-06-11 18:06:01 M:TheDude: the chest label feature request was one of my favorites
2006-06-11 18:06:34 Pharaoh: Yes, that was something that was easy to code, obviously useful, and many people had signed the petition for.
2006-06-11 18:06:43 M:Righteous: If there were 3 top petitions, and each one took less than a day to code, would ther be any reason why you wouldnt code all 3 (should they be within means to code and pass )
2006-06-11 18:07:01 Pharaoh: So 3 days of each week spent coding laws?
2006-06-11 18:07:53 F:Lill: Pharaoh, I have "Duplicate" written on my wood rack petition...Does this mean I need to throw it away and work on another?
2006-06-11 18:08:25 Pharaoh: Such a law (game idea really) was submitted on 3 different petitions. I'll probably code that.
2006-06-11 18:08:28 M:Risky: Ever considered letting players implement laws on a volunteer basis? Many players have substantial coding experience.
2006-06-11 18:09:03 Pharaoh: The problem is that the game is coded live, and it's very easy to introduce an exploit into the code.
2006-06-11 18:09:21 Pharaoh: Sort of like volunteering to be an apprentice diamond cutter.
2006-06-11 18:09:34 M:Pluribus: Or crash bugs like my new GM widget killing the servers :-)
2006-06-11 18:09:58 Pharaoh: Yep. And Pluribus has been coding BabelScript for - what - 2 years now? 3?
2006-06-11 18:10:32 M:Mentemhe: Feature Request: Public Speaking and speaking platforms. After learning the skill of Public Speaking, a citizen may build a speaking platform. When climbing onto the platform, a new chat window is automatically opened for every person within 2 coordinate of the platform. Speaking in this channel is reserved for the person on the platform, so that their message may be heard without getting lost in activity on more public channels.
2006-06-11 18:10:59 Pharaoh: So that's an example of a gameidea...
2006-06-11 18:11:36 M:Kenhotep: lol /soapbox
2006-06-11 18:11:52 Pharaoh: It actually affects gameplay - you'd build the platform out of wood maybe, and you'd affect other players.
2006-06-11 18:12:00 Pharaoh: Here's my analysis of that:
2006-06-11 18:12:16 Pharaoh: It would take maybe half a day to code, and some time for the artists to model the soapbox...
2006-06-11 18:13:06 Pharaoh: So if it got a *huge* number of signatures - I'm talking on the order of 500 - I'd probably do it.
2006-06-11 18:13:10 M:Mentemhe: Soapbox. . . exactly the name I used when thinking the idea up originally.
2006-06-11 18:13:30 M:HTHT: iIs there anything we people should look forward to if someones's future request is going to be used in the future
2006-06-11 18:13:42 F:Gemstar: feature request: bring back some method of telling how large and how "occupied" a guild hall is (ie 14 of 17, 10 of 10, 200 of 250)
2006-06-11 18:14:55 Pharaoh: On the soapbox thing - my instinct is that that would not be an often-used item...
2006-06-11 18:15:27 Pharaoh: If it was something that I thought was really useful, had some hidden depth to it - I'd probably do it with far fewer signatures.
2006-06-11 18:16:02 Pharaoh: That's what I mean by a mixture of my own instinct, the number of signatures, and the ease of coding.
2006-06-11 18:16:50 Pharaoh: Oh, and it's something that would make future changes to the chat system take longer, because it complicates it in a new way.
2006-06-11 18:17:06 M:HTHT: so your saying that if we have a simple coding idea but VERY useful then the number of signatures on standered may be lowered
2006-06-11 18:17:17 Pharaoh: Yes, absolutely.
2006-06-11 18:17:37 Pharaoh: Ok, I promised to give details on signature decay - let me look at the code there.
2006-06-11 18:18:40 Pharaoh: A petition has 1024 signature slots. Your signature occupies one of those at random.
2006-06-11 18:18:54 Pharaoh: Your signature will always occupy the same slot for a given bill.
2006-06-11 18:19:45 Pharaoh: Each 24 TeppyHours, it selects 4 of the slots and removes the signature in that slot, if one exists.
2006-06-11 18:20:16 F:Polly: ah, this causes that you can't sign a petition you haven't sign already (hashcodes)
2006-06-11 18:20:45 Pharaoh: Right, and occasionally you can't sign one that you haven't actually signed.
2006-06-11 18:21:16 Pharaoh: Hash codes are used because it's just too much storage to list all players that have signed a given petition.
2006-06-11 18:21:26 F:Teper: are you informed in some way if your signature is removed?
2006-06-11 18:21:47 Pharaoh: No, because actually the system doesn't know that slot #x on a given petition is *you*.
2006-06-11 18:21:53 M:Hogan: 1024 is a good number given the number of players, (for a hash) what if the players goes up -- would you ever increase this number?
2006-06-11 18:22:02 M:Dachannien: in other words, an average 0.390625% decay in the number of signatures per day
2006-06-11 18:22:49 Pharaoh: Even if we had, say, 100,000 players, the 1024 still gives a statistically accurate representation of the bill's support, which is really the goal...
2006-06-11 18:23:04 Pharaoh: The actual votes are done on an exact basis - no has codes involved.
2006-06-11 18:23:28 M:Teao: true but hash collisions when you haven't done something is frustrating
2006-06-11 18:23:32 Pharaoh: I know.
2006-06-11 18:24:45 Pharaoh: I use hash tables in many places because the storage requirements of an exact list are unbounded. Already the size of a single checkpoint file by Tale's end is close to 1G...
2006-06-11 18:26:44 M:Hogan: if your hash is good :)
2006-06-11 18:27:04 Pharaoh: The hash functions we use are here: http://burtleburtle.net/bob/hash/evahash.html
2006-06-11 18:27:23 M:Risky: will your signature collide with the same other player on separate petitions?
2006-06-11 18:27:27 Pharaoh: No.
2006-06-11 18:28:03 M:Teao: each petition hashes differently?
2006-06-11 18:28:10 Pharaoh: Correct.
2006-06-11 18:28:24 M:Risky: you could always switch to a bloom filter, and lower the probability of collision haha
2006-06-11 18:28:29 Pharaoh: No idea what that is. Send me a link.
2006-06-11 18:28:48 Pharaoh: Ok, next thing I'd like to discuss is vetos.
2006-06-11 18:29:01 M:Teao: is that the same for judgeables? cause some people hash collide alot like someone is out there who keys the same as them
2006-06-11 18:29:22 Pharaoh: Yes. Judgeables have a 256-position hash table.
2006-06-11 18:29:48 Pharaoh: Might be worth increasing those to 1024.
2006-06-11 18:30:12 M:Teao: but will two people collide always on different buildings? you just said that shouldn't happen on law petitions
2006-06-11 18:30:54 Pharaoh: No, the same people won't collide on buildings either.
2006-06-11 18:31:03 Pharaoh: But...
2006-06-11 18:31:32 Pharaoh: The PeerReview system does away with hashes for buildings - it stores an exact list of 21 judges...
2006-06-11 18:32:01 Pharaoh: And when more than 21 judges exist for a building, replaces them randomly.
2006-06-11 18:32:36 Pharaoh: I've released source code for PeerReview - the exact method can be seen there.
2006-06-11 18:33:00 Pharaoh: Ok, Vetos...
2006-06-11 18:33:17 M:Risky: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom_filter - its just like what you're doing, but you use 2 or more hash functions, and mark multiple spots (one for each hash function) when adding their signature - its a marginal benefit for a nice bump in complexity (not worth it here i would bet, but maybe for other things in the game i dunno)
2006-06-11 18:33:53 Pharaoh: Ok, I actually use a variant of that for Bureaucracy petition signatures.
2006-06-11 18:34:09 Pharaoh: Vetos...
2006-06-11 18:35:13 Pharaoh: If a law changes the "physics" of the game - changes the rules for how a physical object works, usually to make it easier, that's a PhysicsVeto. Some examples:
2006-06-11 18:36:08 Pharaoh: "Mines won't ever give less than the maximum ore per pull that they ever gave"
2006-06-11 18:36:44 Pharaoh: "Papyrus will now grow in any body of water"
2006-06-11 18:37:35 Pharaoh: "Travel to Tanis is free"
2006-06-11 18:37:40 M:HTHT: trees will grow more wood over time
2006-06-11 18:38:05 Pharaoh: Those are all Physics vetos because they try to change the laws of nature.
2006-06-11 18:38:15 M:Aquilon: Dear Paraoh can u add a lochness monster in the lake ;)
2006-06-11 18:39:00 Pharaoh: Occasinally I'll TechVeto something. I hate to do those because they are otherwise a perfectly valid law...
2006-06-11 18:39:12 Pharaoh: Let me see if I've come across any in T3...
2006-06-11 18:39:50 Pharaoh: Just one so far:
2006-06-11 18:39:57 Pharaoh: "Petition by SandyDunes (41 signatures, 1 petitioners)
Making private compound private only owners of the compound may build in the compound. no other players may build inside ur compound. Examples are like brick racks small distaff and flax combs ,and wood planes Ty vm for ur suport :) "
2006-06-11 18:41:19 Pharaoh: It's technically doable, with huge effort and vastly greater server resources. It would involve writing a terrain allocator with a very small grid.
2006-06-11 18:41:30 M:HTHT: that sounds exactly like what is already in-game
2006-06-11 18:42:03 Pharaoh: Not quite - a compound *is* a terrain allocator for the space it encloses...
2006-06-11 18:42:10 Pharaoh: What is being proposed is a global terrain allocator.
2006-06-11 18:42:36 M:Risky: can't you implement it on the client side?
2006-06-11 18:42:53 Pharaoh: Possibly, but that's hackable.
2006-06-11 18:44:04 Pharaoh: There's a low-level assumption that the server enforces, and that is that all interactions between a player and an object is "atomic" - this gets into comp-sci stuff...
2006-06-11 18:45:09 Pharaoh: And when you get to a 3-object interaction (player, building, allocated terrain), it becomes nonatomic. It's possible to code around this in some tricky, bug-prone ways, and I do in some cases...
2006-06-11 18:46:12 Pharaoh: But to move to that case for building stuff in general would slow development of everything else drastically. So unless I come up with something clever and not brute-force, that one is unfortunately a Tech Veto.
2006-06-11 18:46:20 M:HTHT: yah,its better un-hackable, that will create more problems than the coding itself
2006-06-11 18:46:24 M:HTHT: any other types
2006-06-11 18:46:41 Pharaoh: There's a TestVeto...
2006-06-11 18:47:17 Pharaoh: "Demi-Pharaoh's will no longer be allowed to exile people without a vote of the general population"
2006-06-11 18:47:23 Pharaoh: Or even...
2006-06-11 18:48:34 Pharaoh: "Any Demi-Pharaoh that uses an Exile shall themselves be automatically exiled"
2006-06-11 18:48:59 Pharaoh: The 49 Tests are challenges made to us, by The Stranger...
2006-06-11 18:49:38 Pharaoh: And anything done to make them easier are essentially giving up.
2006-06-11 18:49:58 Pharaoh: Meaning, we would fail the Telling, implicitly.
2006-06-11 18:50:08 Pharaoh: So those things I classify as "TestVeto"
2006-06-11 18:50:53 M:Deohotep: If we make a test harder, say, give a DP unlimited bans, would that also be a TestVeto?
2006-06-11 18:51:06 Pharaoh: No. Making Tests harder is explicitly allowed.
2006-06-11 18:51:38 M:Mentemhe: So how would enforced queues fit into the scheme of things?
2006-06-11 18:52:51 Pharaoh: Like for Obelisk? Most definitely a Test Veto. If you can organize them yourself and get zero people to "defect", then (as I see it, for Obelisk at least) you have defeated The Stranger for that Test.
2006-06-11 18:53:06 Pharaoh: And I commend you :)
2006-06-11 18:53:20 Pharaoh: So how have those queues worked? ;)
2006-06-11 18:53:59 F:Trin: as long as folk use them, then well
2006-06-11 18:54:08 F:Calixes: pretty well, actually. =)
2006-06-11 18:54:08 M:Hogan: not well, lol
2006-06-11 18:54:08 M:Ishamael: 1 disturbance in 49 cubits in Upper Egypt
2006-06-11 18:54:09 F:Sariel: they worked brilliantly in kush
2006-06-11 18:54:09 F:LlanelliKing: In Kush they have worked very well
2006-06-11 18:54:09 F:Zephire: not
2006-06-11 18:54:09 M:Flortn: lol
2006-06-11 18:54:09 M:Flortn: you don't wanna know:)
2006-06-11 18:54:09 M:Boone: They started out good, but inevitabely people questioned them and overbuilt the queue.
2006-06-11 18:54:10 F:Samisotet: How can they work when so many players aren't aware of them?
2006-06-11 18:54:11 M:Promiscuous: some people feel its gaming the test, tho this one is borderline imo
2006-06-11 18:54:35 M:Ouijdani: will having nothing to do with queues
2006-06-11 18:54:44 M:silentdeth: The zones with fewer people in them seem to work ok, the more people the more likly somone would be differnt, also a bit of as language barrier.
2006-06-11 18:54:44 M:Ishamael: eek, 44 cubits in U.E. I spoke too hastily
2006-06-11 18:54:52 F:LlanelliKing: Gaming? That would be something like Safari Hunting Association as well, since they "help" you to pass
2006-06-11 18:55:09 F:Jezebella: doesn't agree with queues either
2006-06-11 18:55:19 M:xirxx: In Kush, it seems to have worked great - It is not gaming.
2006-06-11 18:55:19 F:Angel: Most of the queue spots were filled in the middle of the night. It wasn't necessarily fair how people were chosen for the slots or how they were made available to all players.
2006-06-11 18:55:30 Pharaoh: We should have a chat at some point on gaming.
2006-06-11 18:55:51 M:Promiscuous: as long as queues dont spill over into art and thought... its tolerable i guess
2006-06-11 18:56:21 F:MomMouse: purposely losing or voting other ppls test buidings for purpose of helping someone else pass is
2006-06-11 18:57:02 Pharaoh: (But not now.)
2006-06-11 18:58:12 Pharaoh: Ok, thinking if there are any other sorts of vetos...
2006-06-11 18:58:31 M:Kenhotep: Pony Veto. :)
2006-06-11 18:58:31 M:Kryzoth: PonyVeto?
2006-06-11 18:58:44 M:Teao: story veto
2006-06-11 18:58:51 Pharaoh: I think I might have used this once...
2006-06-11 18:59:20 Pharaoh: And it basically meant that someone had guessed at an event that I was just about to release.
2006-06-11 18:59:41 Pharaoh: The infamous "PonyVeto" as in...
2006-06-11 19:00:07 Pharaoh: Bratty little-girl-voice: "Daddy, I WANT a Pony!"
2006-06-11 19:01:02 Pharaoh: That's something that is so obviously, blatently a physics veto that I just have to be obnoxious about it :P
2006-06-11 19:01:34 F:Nodjmet: hehe... can you give an example... for amusement?
2006-06-11 19:02:15 Pharaoh: Uh, "Camels only eat a light snack of 50 grass when they settle in."

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ENN Log