Test of Dancing Waters
Where can I go to see these fountains?
Historical Information
The Test of Dancing Waters was designed by our great-grandparents (the original idea was ArmEagle's) and locked in the Tale 1 Monument of Art. The Oracle in charge of that great project was Sigil. This final Art and Music test for the second telling was released on February 25, 2006 during a "Welcome Back Weekend".
Passing the Principle
Build a fountain, a beautiful and dynamic display of water.
- Build a Dancing Waters Mechanism
- Start the Mechanism, achieving at least 20% Mechanical Stress
- Have Seven Judges rate your Fountain
- Design rated Good by most judges
What is needed to build a fountain?
Below are the costs as listed on the Tale 2 wiki. These costs appear to be the same for Tale 3.
Dancing Waters Mechanism (requires Small Construction Site)
- 200 Cut Stones to lower water table
- 100 Concrete for basic mechanism
- 40 Glass Pipes for delicate control
- 2 Copper Pipes for main inflow and outflow
- 1 random 3-output gearbox
Note The Mechanism Can not be too close to another one as it will not let you access it currently known 14,8 coords is too close ~Zaniac
I received the "vibrations" message as well when building 30 coords away from another. Be Aware! You don't find out the controller is unusable until *AFTER* you'd paid for the thing and controllers are not movable like basins are. (Hint: My controller is now 70 coords away from that other controller and it works just fine, so the limit is somewhere between 30 and 70 coords - to narrow it down a bit. :p) Pick your spot carefully. - MynIf the controller has any basins associated with it, you must tear down all those basins before you are able to tear down the controller. Moving them out of range is not sufficient! - Tamutnefret
I don't know how far you can move them this way, but my controller is indeed movable. The option is under Utilities, like on a flower. This might or might not help people with "vibrations" proximity issues, if there's a distance limit. - Everyl
Controllers are built in a Small Construction site, meaning that for the first ~10 mins or until first use (which ever comes first - all con-site buildings do this), the building can be moved using the method you mentioned above (but only a limited distance). Are you absolutely sure that the option to reposition the controller is still there?
Basins (each requires a Small Construction Site)
| Size | Copper Pipes | Cut Stones | Tar | Diameter | Appearance | |
| Small | 10 | 30 | 15 | 8 ft 1 coordinate is 16 feet. The basin must be within 7 coordinates (112 feet) of the controller. |  |
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| Medium | 20 | 60 | 30 | 12 ft |  |
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| Large | 30 | 90 | 45 | 16 ft |  | |
| Huge | 40 | 120 | 60 | 20 ft |  |
Nozzles (cast in a Student's Casting Box)
| Type | Materials | Minutes | Average Flow Rate | Appearance |
| Crystal Fog | 1 Brass, 1 Beeswax | 10 | 1.75 |  |
| Dirty Rain | 1 Copper, 1 Beeswax | 10 | 9.24 |  |
| Foggy Shower | 1 Copper, 1 Beeswax | 10 | 3.52 |  |
| Light Rain | 1 Bronze, 1 Beeswax | 20 | 3.50 |  |
| Misty Bubbles | 1 Brass, 1 Beeswax | 10 | 1.07 |  |
| White Shower | 4 Brass, 4 Beeswax | 30 | 2.45 |  |
The following information is taken directly from the Tale 2 wiki - some things may have changed for Tale 3. Use this as a guide, but be aware!
Average Flow Rate for a nozzle is a measure of particle complexity. The Average Flow Rate reported by the controller has little to do with the amount of water you are moving around. Rather, it's all about particle count per frame. A Dirty Rain nozzle hammers your Average Flow Rate while Misty Bubbles moves the same amount of water with 1/9th the particle count. On the other hand, a Dirty Rain water jet is opaque, while you can barely see a Misty Bubbles water jet. You get what you pay for.
Flow Rate was tested by adding individual nozzles in a small basin. Single nozzles were tested at 100 periods for precision. The total is linear with the number of periods for each type of nozzle. The Average Flow Rate is anything but average. The Average Flow Rate for the controller is actually the total of the particle complexity of each type of nozzle times the number of periods defined for that nozzle.
Mechanical Stress for a single nozzle in a basin is always 33.4% (two nozzles will work but not three if there's any movement at all) regardless of the water jet target, footprint, or height. Complex water level calculations (when a lot of basins are catching water) also increases the Mechanical Stress level. The factors are the number of nozzles per basin and the total number of nozzles that are Turned-on concurrently.
 | Don't try this at home. :-) It's an excellent demonstration, but the Mechanical Stress would probably be much to high in an operational fountain. Most of the exhaustive stress tests have been done on small basins, so the larger basins might be more tolerate of additional nozzles. |
The following is clipped from an initial discussion with Pharaoh at the time of the Tale 2 release of the test
Ok, so let me give an overview of how to think about Dancing Waters. The first thing you will do after signing up for the Test is to build a Dancing Waters Mechanism, using a Small Construction Site, then you can build basins nearby the Mechanism and install nozzles (which can be forged out of different metals) in the basins. Then the fun begins...
On the controller you have an option to "Adjust the Fountain." There's an overhead map of the area with the Basins and Nozzles shown as circles. As you rotate the camera, the map rotates.
- Click on a Basin to configure that Nozzle.
- Run to where you'd like the nozzle to aim. (The yellow dot is not very accurate - MarvL)
- Click the "Aim Gentle" or "Aim Abrupt" button.
A nozzle can point to up to 10 different locations, a different location every second, and then the pattern repeats. Now the cool thing is that the nozzle only does all that until the basin that it is installed in empties. When the water level gets to 0, a nozzle shuts off. When the level gets to 10, the nozzle will turn on. You can change all those numbers from the "Config" button.
So if you want a particular nozzle to turn on when it's basin gets to 50, and turn off when it gets to 20, that's fine. You can change the length of the cycle from 10 seconds to some other number.
So those are the basics. Now I'll take some questions.
F:MomMouse: I'm getting the message "mechanism cant handle that much water flow" message, what am i doing wrong?
There are two different limits that apply to fountains.
- Water flow is the total amount of water that may be pumped at once. This corresponds to how much "stuff" is onscreen at once. That limit is in place so that nobody creates a fountain that lags everyone in the area severely.
- Another limit is "mechanical stress." That measures how quickly the positions of all the nozzles change.(FYI: And corresponds roughly to how much bandwidth usage the fountain causes for those seeing it.)
M:Yargh: how generous are the catch zone of the different basins?
Approximately 50% wider than the basins are.
M:tripps: So, the basins do not need to be built at the same time as the mechanism, right? We can come back and add those later?
Yes. You can also slide basins around after they have been built.
M:tripps: How far can the basins be from the mechanism?
Checking... 128 feet. (editor's note - that's 8 coordinates)
M:Phoenixwcu: does the fountain need a natural water source?
No. You must empty jugs into the basins to fill them. When you turn the fountain on, it will show if it leaks, and will show where (as blue dots on the display). But if the fountain runs and all the water leaks out, when you turn it off, the water is replaced - no need to haul water back. Fountains with leaks can run for a while, but can't be opened for judging.
M:tripps: Once a nozzle has been installed, can it be swapped for another?
Yes, you can just pick one up and install another.
F:Bellah: When you say how much stuff, could it be there are too many flowers, or is it too many basins or too much start up water?
No, it's just measuring the fountain, not other things nearby.
F:Calixes: can the basins be moved more than once, or are they pinned after the initial repositioning?
As many times as you need.
M:Phoenixwcu: [Does it have to be near] a pond for instance, or can it be in the middle of the desert?
Middle of the desert is fine. You just need to haul the water there initially.
F:Sola: I seem to be able to locate nozzles outside of the basins. Is that expected?
That sounds like a bug. Do a DevCall after this chat and I'll fix it.
M:Yargh: just to clarify... the water flow limit is actually a limit to what can be displayed?
Example : a 1 second jet of 1 water = a 1 second jet of 100 water visually?
You're referring to the "flow" parameter in the nozzle config - Yes.
F:murtha: the nozzles all have different names. any way to see what their spray is like before you cast and install?
Hmm, no, but nozzles never get consumed.
M:Yargh: The flow control is useful for moving large quantities of water in a short time. It's a useful trick to get all your water back into the initial basin at the end of the cycle.
You mean by having a nozzle that pumps a huge quantity of water back to your "initial" basin(s), assuming you just fill one basin initially? - Yes.
F:Polly: what parameters are influencing the water flow limit besides the number of nozzles?
Each nozzle is different. It's actually counting the number of particles onscreen for each nozzle type.
F:MomMouse: OK, is the nozzle off during a cycle when it's not programmed to run?
By default a nozzle doesn't move - doesn't progress on it's cycle - when no water is flowing through it. You can change that behavior from the "Move while Dry" checkbox in the nozzle's config screen.
F:DustintheDesert: Will this cause lag, due to more motion?
Fountains are a pretty graphics intensive thing. Or at least they can be.
F:Bellah: How do you take water out of the basin, say it only needs 100 from 300?
Just change the level in the basin. If you have empty jugs on hand it will fill them, otherwise the water will be thrown out.
Ok, difference between an "abrupt" transition and "gentle"...
- If you're not a mathematician, then "gentle" means just that - the position of the nozzle (and the height of the spray, the width, length, etc.) will transition through that keyframe gently.
- If you are a mathematician, then "gentle" means to cubic-spline through the keyframe, and abrupt means to put a knot at the keyframe. If two adjacent keyframes are abrupt, then it's linearly interpolating the parameters between them.
F:Erika: lol that's not mathematics its CS :P
Well, it's something that will make it to the wiki :)
Any bets as to how long before googling "Dancing Waters" points to atitd.net? :)
M:Kaotika: A week. Try Glory Hole (top of page 2). Hookah's and Gemcutting do well too ;)
Any other questions?
M:OnlyAloha: why make it so darn expensive xD
Well, I actually tried to make this a "casual-to-moderate" level of Test...
That's not to say that a casual player will have a fountain 24 hours after the Test was released...
But I think (hope!) that we'll see a huge variety of these.
F:Calixes: It's not half as expensive as I expected. I think the prices are pretty fair.
F:murtha: Any way to add colors to the water?
Not directly, but if you look carefully at the spray produced by each type of nozzle, you'll notice a different hue.
I may introduce a few other types of nozzles. A huge variety is possible internally.
M:OnlyAloha: oh well, i am just here for the weekend (btw, thx for that one Pharaoh!)
M:Yargh: Just a suggestion, don't build your control mechanism just anywhere, basins are quite large and it's a nice idea to make use of landscape features in your design.
M:Kaotika: How do fountains deal with terrain? eg, can i have a stream firing up/down to/from a cliff?
Absolutely. They're smart about altitude calculations.
M:Yargh: What happens when 2 controllers are placed close enough together to affect the same basins?
When you build a basin it tries to attach that to the controller you most recently built or manipulated.
M:Kaotika: Ok, so who else is thinking 'waterfall effect'? :)
F:Calixes: [How many] passes for Dancing Waters?
One per week, though if participation is exceptionally high, more than that.
K, I think that's all for now. Gonna warp around and see what's out there.
Pharaoh out!
Time Slot 0 bug fix and an Explanation of Phase (Tale 2 record)
Seshat: HiPharaoh: Got your DevCall - what's up?
Seshat: I have a fountain at 1416, 2234 that's set up to demo a Time Slot 0 bug.
Seshat: If you have nothing in time slot 0 you'll have an automatic leak, and there's no error message or anything. There should at least be a message, but the ideal solution would be if we could control the flow second by second, so we could stagger the flows.
Seshat: I'll meet you there.
Pharaoh: omw
Seshat: The Basin, right here behind the Guildhall, is isolated. It starts with 10 water and it leaks out at 1 water per cycle, probably because there is nothing in Time Slot zero. If you add something in Time Slot zero, the leak goes away. Just stop the controller, and you can watch it count down.
Pharaoh: It's OK to close/wipe judging for this fountain?
Seshat: Yes. It's only about 4 hours old anyway.
Seshat: If the nozzle "works" then Mechanical Stress gets me, and it would be helpful to tune too, but this basin is really just to demo the bug.
Pharaoh: I see, let me look at that code.
Seshat: OK. What would be neat is if it started with 0 flow.
The bug was eliminated, and a nozzle will no longer start unless there’s an entry in Time Slot 0. This approach is more stable than trying to anticipate what the fountain might do later in the time sequence, and it nicely eliminates a virtually undetectable leak. Pharaoh also apparently tightened up the Mechanical Stress code, as I was able to add an additional nozzle once the Time Slot 0 bug was fixed.
Seshat: Oh - could you explain "Phase"?
Pharaoh: Phase is a user interface thing - if you want to set keyframes at 3, 13, 23, 33, 43, and 53 seconds of a 60 second cycle.
Seshat: Huh??? So it's like a delay for a particular nozzle??
Pharaoh: Yes. It's only useful when resolution is > 1.
Seshat: But once a nozzle starts, doesn't it just cycle??
Pharaoh: Only if you have "move while dry" checked.
Seshat: OK - I'll have to play with the nozzles at higher resolutions. I'll put this information on the wiki then, so we can experiment with "Phase".
Design Interface
In the image above, the big blue dot is the basin, the small red dot is a selected nozzle (it would usually be in a basin), the small grey dot is where the nozzle is aiming, and the yellow dot is the player location.
- Click on a blue circle to select a basin.
- Select a nozzle from the basin menu, or directly by clicking on the black dots.
- Extra blue circles indicate severe leaks.
| Basin_Menu | Explanation |
| Name | A label for the basin - what's it there for :-) or where is it |
| Fill Level | This is the starting value for your basin. You must have enough water in your inventory or the controller will complain. On the other hand, if you have empty jugs in your inventory, it will conserve water. Unless you have your Flow Rate way up for some reason, a half dozen debens of water should be plenty. |
| Nozzle_Menu | Explanation |
| Name | A label for the nozzle - makes handling a couple of nozzles in a single basin easier. |
| Turn-off Level | The basin water level at which the nozzle will stop its action. |
| Turn-on Level | The basin water level at which the nozzle will start its action. |
| Flow Rate | The amount of water pushed through the nozzle each second. This is not the same as the Average Flow Rate reported by the controller. Flow Rate is only about filling and emptying the basins. It's not influenced by the kind of nozzle that you are using. |
| Period | Number of seconds you want in the total fountain cycle. The default is 0-9 for 10 periods. |
| Resolution | Possible phases = Period modulo Resolution. If you set the resolution to 5, for example, you'll only see every 5th step at that nozzle. Resolution, essentially, allows you to leave out the blank periods. Resolution also allows you to avoid the requirement to define the Time 0 slot. It's actually the first slot that must contain a fountain controller instruction. |
| Phase | If period/resolution => 2 cycles, you can select which periods in the cycle you want to display. 0&5, 1&6, 2&7, 3&8, 4&9 in our 10/5=2 example. |
| Move While Dry | The nozzle will get to the next keyframe's position, even if the level is lower than its Turn-off level. This makes it easier to keep a fountain synchronized. |
| Start On | The nozzle works from the start of the cycle, even if water level is below Turn-on level. After a configuration change, you may need the synchronization period plus a full cycle for the fountain to stabilize. Subsequently it will work as expected. (This feature doesn't seem to work - has anybody observed a nozzle that initalizes in the off state? - MarvL) |
| Time_Slot_Menu | Explanation |
| Tighter | Smaller footprint across the direction of flow |
| Wider | Larger footprint across the direction of flow |
| Shorter | Smaller footprint in the direction of flow |
| Longer | Larger footprint in the direction of flow |
| Lower | Drop the top of the arc by 10 feet |
| Low | Drop the top of the arc by 1 foot |
| High | Raise the top of the arc by 1 foot |
| Higher | Raise the top of the arc by 10 feet |
| Aim (Gentle) | Target the center of flow where your avatar is standing. Interpolate the frames. |
| Aim (Abrupt) | Target the center of flow where your avatar is standing. Knot the frames. |
Hints and Design Techniques
- You won't be allowed to add material to the Small Construction Site for a basin unless you're within 8 coodinates of the controller (inclusive of both the SCS and the controller) so the coordinate difference is only 7 coordinates. You can move a basin as often as you wish, but the nozzles don't move with the basin.
- You can move a basin onto a roadway. Traffic Circle fountains work just fine.
- The controller will actually track a basin that's more than 7 coordinates away, and it will send a water jet. The controller screen will blink out at 7 coordinates, however, so there's no way to target that basin to refill it.
- The rendering distance on basins is about 12 coordinates. It's possible to build a fountain too large to see it all unless your avatar is near the controller.
- The flat spot created by the Huge Basin isn't big enough, so if you position it on a (gentle) slope some ground will show through the base on the uphill side.
- Always close the controller when you add or remove a nozzle. The controller isn't very adept at tracking nozzle adds and deletes, and only the Developers can relink the database.
- When you add a nozzle to a basin, the nozzle always appears in the middle of the basin, but you can use the widget to position it. You can't reposition a nozzle; you have to pick it up and start over.
- Nozzles that are positioned outside of a basin will exhibit a water jet, but they won't cycle.
- Click on the Fountain Controller and select Adjust to bring up the design tool. You can move the design tool partially off the screen if you need to see what you are doing.
- Click Start to enter design mode. You can get basin details by clicking on a basin, and nozzle details by selecting a nozzle from the basin menu, or by directly clicking on the black dots if they're not covered up.
The phantom nozzle bug seems to be fixed. You couldn't click on a phantom nozzle time slot without crashing the design tool, but if you set the nozzle to turn on at a very high value, it would never turn on and you could ignore it.
- Targeting is much easier if you move your avatar to a target basin and then select the nozzles that target that basin, rather than moving your avatar all the time.
- The yellow and grey dots on the design tool only indicate the general area. Position your avatar on the main screen (double F8 is the most reliable) and then select Gentle or Abrupt.
- The Average Water Flow limit is 300 units per controller. You'll get an immediate message when you press Stop (the adjustments). For testing purposes, a Mistly Bubbles nozzle contributes the least amount of particle complexity.
- Using Resolution and Phasing to hide passive time slots makes the controller easier to use, but the hidden time slots still contribute to Average Water Flow.
- The Mechanical Stress limit is 99%. If you retarget a fountain every period, the Mechanical Stress will be at a maximum for that particular nozzle. If you add blank periods, or use resolution and phasing, the stress peaks will drop a bit. The Average Flow Rate, however, will increase due to the increased number of periods.
- The water level calculations contribute a bit to the stress level, but if you have no more than two nozzles per basin, stress should not be a limitation unless you're trying to get continuous water flow from every nozzle.
- To move the nozzle target, the Gentle or Abrupt button and the consequent gray dots, from one basin to the next, the basins need to be relatively close together, the catch basin is about 1.5 times the apparent size of the basin.
- When you press the Stop (the adjustments), you'll immediatly get extra blue circles indicating leaks if the catch basins don't overlap.
- If you're shifting the target from basin to basin, the water will be porportionally distributed between the basins if the controller has enough time. Target placement is critical if you want even water level distribution. At 1 second per basin the water flow calulations are erratic, at 2 seconds per basin they are stable.
- Sigil designed a 3-armed, 10-basin spiral fountain at the demo, and Pharaoh designed a very compact octagon.
- If a basin is catching any of the water, it seems to catch all of the water, regardless of the width or length of the water jet footprint.
- When all of your water leaks away the fountain will stall, but the static water jets will remain. Leaky fountains can't be opened for judging.
- Once you open the fountain for judging, you can no longer adjust it without resetting the scoring.
- Watch the Mechanical Stress on the lower right of the control during Stop (the adjustments). The mechanical stress seems to be the highest just before something visible happens, but the water levels displayed on the controller seem to lag the water jets by a couple of seconds.
- If the mechanical stress exceeds 99%, during either the synchronization or the operating sequence, the fountain will abort and switch back to Start (the adjustments) mode where the black dots are shown. It doesn't switch to the bad nozzle, it just reopens.
- You can reduce the number of nozzles per basin.
- You can increase the number of periods for each nozzle, and allow the controller more time to complete it's interpolation calculations. Of course more periods will increase your Average Flow Rate.
- You can stagger the nozzles by reducing the amount of water so that fewer nozzles are Turned-on at once.
In this simple 10 second example, with 5 basins in a ring and a resolution of 5, the nozzle in basin 0 would be set to phase 0, the nozzle in basin 1 would be set to phase 1, and so forth. If you want the water jet in subsequent basins to gradually get higher then lower, thereby creating a 10 second high-higher-highest-higher-repeat pattern, where each basin follows its neighbor, you would set the nozzle heights (one nozzle in each basin) as follows:
| Phase | Period 0 | Period 5 |
| 0 (Basin) | Height=10 | Height=60 |
| 1 (Basin) | Height=20 | Height=50 |
| 2 (Basin) | Height=30 | Height=40 |
| 3 (Basin) | Height=40 | Height=30 |
| 4 (Basin) | Height=50 | Height=20 |
- A nozzle will continue doing whatever it is doing until it runs out of water or gets a new instruction.
- By changing the height a bit you can get a nice vertical ripple. Setting the height to zero locks up the fountain.
- By changing the aiming point within a basin or by targeting multiple basins, you can get a nice horizontal ripple.
- Tighter, Wider, Shorter, and Longer refer to the footprint of the water stream when it lands.
- The particle paths will adjust to create that footprint, regardless of distance, height, or angular rotation. If the water jet works without leaking, you can do all sorts of fancy tricks and the water will still land in exactly the same spot.
- Click Stop to leave design mode. Unless your design has stalled, you'll get running totals for
- Water level in each basin (if the grand total changes you have a leak)
- Average Water Flow (Dirty Rain is the worst)
- Mechanical stress (the number of nozzles per basin, plus water level calculations)
Troubleshooting
Tale 2 Bug Log - Apparent Changes
- March 3rd, 2006 - The fountain controller is turning up blank every couple of hours, and the Devs are needed to reset the controller. I've been testing a lot of single nozzles. - MarvL
- March 6th, 2006 - You must have an activity in the first time slot for every nozzle. You can't stagger the start times. If you check your water balance closely, an empty Time Slot 0 creates an unreported nozzle leak. - MarvL
- March 26th, 2006 - A nozzle will no longer start unless there's an action in the first time slot. Also, the Mechanical Stress is now about 10% lower than it was previously. - MarvL
- April 2nd, 2006 - You can get phantom water flow, and it will look like your graphics have failed. The water flow in the controller will start immediately, equal to or greater than Turn-on level, but the associated fountain jet will not show up until the water level is exactly equal to the Turn-on level. Note that you'll only (not) see this during development, when you have an open cycle fountian. In a closed cycle fountain, because the Turn-off value must be lower than the Turn-on value, the fountain graphic will already be running if there's too much water. - MarvL
- April 5th, 2006 - The graphics now seem to match the water level calculations. I either had a bad test, or else Pharaoh noticed my message and fixed it while I was off-line.
Tale 3 Bug Log
- May 19, 2008 - System: 2008-05-19 00:24:41 Pharaoh here... I've fixed a bug where certain complex fountains were "leaking" without showing leak spots on the display. In fact these fountains were not leaking; it was just doing that part of the simulation wrong. The bug is now fixed. There was a bug in Dancing Waters from Tale 2, which IIRC, the symptom was that some fountains would mysteriously stop. This may actually be that bug. If any T2 players recall something different, let me know.
- May 20, 2008 - System: 2008-05-20 17:36:22 Pharaoh here... I've fixed another Dancing Waters related bug - if you have a fountain that fails to synchronize after exiting and returning to the area, and the fountain uses the "Move while dry" option, stopping and restarting the fountain will fix this.
