Currently, five alloys are known to Egypt: Brass, Bronze, Pewter, Steel, and the mysterious Metal Blue. All alloys are created by smelting together certain combinations of ore crystals in an Amalgamation Furnace.
Serves as an Anchor page for alloys or refined metals and for compilation of alloying results.
Currently known:
Brass (Messing / Laiton)
Bronze (Bronze / Bronze)
Steel (Stahl / Acier)
Pewter (Métal blanc)
Metal Blue
If you take a look at http://webmineral.com/data/Danbaite.shtml, you'll note that the formula for Danbaite is CuZn2. If Teppy is using real numbers for crystal characteristics, counting Danbaite crystals as Zinc would require less pure Copper, which is consistent with the results I'm seeing. http://www.webmineral.com/data/Digenite.shtml, on the other hand, is Cn9S5 with less than 2/3 Copper. If you combine three pairs of Danbaite and Digenite, the approximate ratios would be 3(Cu + Zn2 + Cu2 + S1) = Cu9 + Zn6 + S3. This would explain why you have to lighten up on the Copper crystals when using this combination, and the Sulpher might even be considered an impurity. Actual molecular weights don't appear to be a factor as Danbaite contains 130.8 gm of Zinc plus 63.5 gm of Copper while Digenite contains 572.4 gm of Copper.-- MarvL
The 24:24 batch had twice as much Danbaite as Matraite. The 27:27 batch had twice as much Matraite as Danbaite. I track each type of zinc that goes into the batch, but make no effort to use one over another. Tests repeated with the same ratio of copper:zinc, while containing different %'s of the various zinc clusters, have yielded identical results for me. -- Gumby
I had posted cluster counts and minerals with my results, somewhere along the line they were changed into copper:zinc ratios which wasn't something I was trying to show. I was trying to show which minerals went together to make brass and which minerals didn't make brass. I've noticed that some of the copper/zinc combinations do not work at all which I feel is important. I'll repost my findings later. -- skrug
I believe that post was made on the Mineralogy page. -- Gumby
Tried 1:1 ratio with Cuprite and Danbaite and did not work -- BlkHawkJoe
Tenorite/Danbaite works given all the combinations I've tried. Any smelt that has digenite in has failed completely. --skrug
The failures are NOT caused by the different minerals. Their something screwy with the ratio. Exact same smelts fail sometimes and work other times. I think it might be a bug. Anyway, I KNOW it has nothing to do with different ores. If you want to gauruntee your smelt to work, add 1 extra copper cluster to the smelt. - Chichis
I can confirm this. If your Zinc minerals have higher concentration you will LOSE your whole batch eventhough your cluster ratio is 1:1. Furthermore, if you manage to fit a large number of clusters in the 22 stones (56 or higher) it is better to add 2 extra Copper clusters or you may still have too much Zinc to get a successfull smelt (better safe than empty handed). - Promiscuous
I'm not sure that's the whole story. I've had suspicions about Digenite as well. See my results at 26:23 below, and the detailed cluster counts on my user page. - Leghk
Something very strange is going on. Skrug and I did a number of smelts using 3 cuprite and 3 danbaite. We narrowed the failure down to ONLY if he dumped the cart into the furnace. If he dumped the cart into the furnace, then the smelt failed. If I did it, then it succeeded. We reproduced this multiple times. I really believe there is some bug with this. - Chichis
I have some limited information on success/failure vs. a) cluster counts b) cluster ratio c) elemental ratio. The data points show that cluster counts and cluster ratio do not adequately predict success vs. failure. The few failure data points I have suggest that elemental ratio may predict success vs. failure. I would really appreciate additional information on failed brass smelts: see that page to find out what I need. - Aqba
Update: with additional data points, and looking also at stone count and stone ratio, it appears that none of these adequately predict success vs. failure. - Aqba
I tried different smeltings and whenever i had included Ashoverite the smelt fails. i always used pure stones and 1:1 ration Gspusi
I use all types of copper and zinc (all 5 types for both metals). Using a copper:zinc ratio of (N+1):N, I've made over 1000 brass without any failures. - Gumby
| Copper:Zinc | Yield | Researcher | Comment |
| 3:3 | 5 | Chichis | 3 Danbaite |
| 3:3 | 5 | Chichis | 3 Matraite |
| 7:7 | 12 | Chichis | |
| 8:8 | 0 | Argonis | |
| 9:9 | 15 | Lindie | |
| 10:9 | 16 | gavjoX | |
| 10:10 | 0 | Jaime | 7 danbaite 3 matraite |
| 10:10 | 17 | Jaime | 10 danbaite |
| 10:10 | 0 | Aqba & Derusha | cuprite & danbaite: clusters 10:10, stones: 7:6 |
| 10:10 | 0 | Aqba & Derusha | cuprite & danbaite: clusters 10:10, stones: 7:8 |
| 10:10 | 17 | Aqba & Derusha | cuprite & danbaite: clusters 10:10, stones: 10:10 |
| 12:12 | 0 | Kai | verified by Astymma |
| 12:12 | 20 | Gumby | |
| 13:12 | 9 | Kai | |
| 14:11 | 9 | Nikka | 1 sand, 3 types cu/3 types zi inc. danbaite |
| 14:12 | 6 | Kai | |
| 15:12 | 9 | Kai | 17 stones |
| 15:12 | 21 | Kai | 19 stones |
| 16:12 | 6 | Kai | |
| 16:15 | 26 | Syrex | 17 stones |
| 14:14 | 24 | Malesh | |
| 15:15 | 26 | Gumby | |
| 18:15 | 12 | Kai | |
| 19:15 | 12 | Kai | verified by Japto |
| 16:16 | 27 | Chichis | |
| 17:16 | 27 | Kroshuro | |
| 18:17 | 15 | Anakat | |
| 18:18 | 0 | Gumby | |
| 19:17 | 31 | RashidAziz | |
| 19:18 | 31 | Gumby | verified by Helpmaboab |
| 19:19 | 0 | Chichis | |
| 20:18 | 32 | MaitreUber | cuprite, tenorite, digenite, covellite, ashoverite, danbaite, matraite |
| 20:19 | 0 | Argonis | |
| 20:19 | 35 | Anakat | |
| 21:19 | 34 | Jasmina | verified by Xeros, Pantherd90, Toba. Seems a reliable ratio. |
| 21:20 | 35 | Xeros | Confirmed by Toba, Mytho |
| 22:18 | 14 | Japto | included some danbaite |
| 22:18 | 37 | Siirah | |
| 22:20 | 15,36 | Xeros | |
| 22:21 | 37 | Gustav | verified by RashidAziz, Anakat |
| 23:21 | 37 | MaitreUber | cuprite, tenorite, digenite, covellite, ashoverite, danbaite, matraite |
| 23:21 | 37 | Brezhnev | cuprite, tenorite, matraite, danbaite, ashoverite |
| 23:17 | 8 | Skrug | |
| 23:20 | 37 | Glixis | verified by Chukh |
| 23:22 | 38 | Glixis | verified by tservo, Gustav, gavjoX |
| 23:22 | 40 | Anakat | |
| 23:23 | 0 | Leghk | |
| 23:23 | 39 | Gustav | 2-3 types each of copper and zinc. verified by Glixis |
| 24:21 | 38 | Ancano | Type of crystal didn't matter, there was digenite in it |
| 24:22 | 16 | Myremi | verified by Mytho |
| 24:23 | 40 | Argonis | |
| 24:11 | 0 | Skrug | |
| 24:22 | 39 | Leghk | |
| 24:24 | 41 | Gumby | |
| 24:23 | 17 | Myremi | |
| 25:22 | 40 | Myremi | verified by Siirah |
| 25:24 | 42 | Argonis | Confirmed with different cluster types for both ores -- RaMPeNT |
| 25:25 | 0 | Miu | is possible ? |
| 26:23 | 18 | Leghk | Included 1 cluster of Digenite, 21 stones |
| 26:23 | 42 | Glixis | |
| 26:23 | 42 | Japto | 9 Digenite clusters, 22 stones |
| 26:23 | 42 | Leghk | No Digenite, 22 stones |
| 26:24 | 17 | Toba | |
| 26:24 | 42 | Myremi | |
| 26:24 | 43 | RaMPeNT | All cluster types, 20 Stones |
| 26:25 | 43 | Japto | all types |
| 27:25 | 44 | MaitreUber | all type of stone (digenite, tenorite...) verified by Anakat |
| 27:25 | 46 | Anakat | |
| 27:27 | 46 | Gumby | |
| 28:27 | 47 | Anakat | |
| 29:26 | 47 | Leghk | Only got 19 brass from this -Toba |
| 29:27 | 45 | Myremi | |
| 29:28 | 0 | Toba | All pure. I don't understand! Grrrr. |
| 29:28 | 48 | RaMPeNT | 22 stones, All cluster types, 1 Limestone included. |
| 30:15 | 0 | Skrug | |
| 30:28 | 49 | Siirah | |
| 30:28 | 51 | Promiscuous | |
| 31:17 | 0 | Skrug | |
| 33:31 | 54 | Promiscuous | |
| 33:31 | 55 | Promiscuous | |
| 34:22 | 10 | Skrug | |
| 34:28 | 22 | Macbeth | |
| 34:32 | 57 | Promiscuous | |
| 35:33 | 55 | Enenhoc | |
| 35:33 | 58 | Macbeth | |
| 36:35 | 60 | Dragyn | |
| 45:44 | 76 | Anthers |
| Copper:Zinc | Impurities | Yield | Researcher |
| 7:7 | 2 Sand | 5 | Roen |
| 20:18 | 1 Dirt | 33 | Chichis |
| 18:16 | 1 Dirt | 12 | Chichis |
| 21:20 | 8 dirt/8 sand | 6 | Hobbes |
| 21:21 | 1 iron/1 alum | 36 | Glixis |
| 11:10 | 1 iron | 7 | gavjoX |
| 31:30 | 2 dirt | 52 | Panek |
| 20:19 | 3 Dirt | 14 | RaMPeNT |
| Copper:Tin | Yield | Researcher |
| 15:15 | 0 | Leghk |
| 15:5 | 15 | Omari |
| 16:4 | 5 | Gspusi |
| 16:4 | 15 | Omari, Gspusi |
| 19:7 | 0 | Kai |
| 19:9 | 23 | Andius |
| 20:4 | 18 | Omari |
| 20:5 | 19 | Omari |
| 21:7 | 20 | Kai |
| 21:7 | 21 | Kai |
| 21:7 | 21 | Kai |
| 24:6 | 23 | MaitreUber |
| 25:23 | 48 | Fin |
| 26:13 | 29 | YamiJedi |
| 27:25 | 41 | Mentemhe |
| 28:7 | 26 | Chichis, Leghk |
| 28:16 | 34 | Mishrack |
| 28:19 | 35 | Gabbo |
| 30:13 | 32 | YamiJedi |
| 31:11 | 32 | YamiJedi |
| 32:8 | 30 | MaitreUber |
| 33:9 | 32 | MaitreUber |
| 32:12 | 33 | MaitreUber |
| 33:12 | 33 | Kai - 1 Akdal added |
| 34:12 | 35 | Kai |
| 35:12 | 35 | Djehutmose |
| 36:9 | 34 | MaitreUber |
| 37:12 | 37 | YamiJedi |
| 38:10 | 36 | Zokar |
| 39:15 | 44 | Anakat |
| 40:10 | 39 | MaitreUber |
| 41:18 | 46 | Anakat |
| 44:11 | 43 | RaMPeNT |
| 48:12 | 45 | RaMPeNT |
| 48:17 | 49 | Siirah |
| 50:17 | 50 | Siirah |
| 52:13 | 49 | MaitreUber. I got 0 both times I tried this -RaMPeNT |
| 53:20 | 55 | MaitreUber |
| 55:18 | 53 | Mentemhe |
| 57:18 | 57 | Mentemhe |
| 58:19 | 56 | Mentemhe |
| 72:18 | 62 | Dragonseye |
| 37:21 | 47 | MrX-Ray |
| 35:30 | 49 | MrX-Ray |
| 40:25 | 45 | Alerik |
| 41:17 | 44 | Alerik |
| 40:20 | 45 | Alerik |
| 37:21 | 44 | Alerik |
LIes, you need 1 more copper than tin, waste of 3hrs of my life
Not True, a 4:1 Ratio Copper:Tin works well -- RaMPeNT
I found that 2.8-3:1 Copper:Tin works better than 4:1 - YamiJedi
Sounds to me like it's avatar-specific; i.e. you have to figure out what ratio works best for yourself. - Knives
| Copper:Tin | Impurities | Yield | Researcher | |
| 25:24 | 3 dirt | 37 | Amtep | |
| 26:13 | 11 sand | 0 | ArmEagle | |
| 27:24 | 1 dirt | 39 | Amtep | |
| 28:8 | 11 sand | 0 | ArmEagle | |
| 16:4 | 1 Sand | 0 | Gspusi | |
| 20:4 | 5 dirt | 0 | Omari | |
| 20:5 | 1 dirt | 19 | Omari | |
| 10:7 | 1 sand | 0 | Ryzlar | |
| 22:21 | 9 sand | 0 | MaitreUber | |
| 24:6 | 1 sand | 0 | MaitreUber | with > 0 sand, no bronze |
| 43:17 | 1 iron | 45 | Simetra | |
| 44:14 | 1 Iron | 44 | Simetra | |
| 54:20 | 1 Dirt | 53 | Mentemhe | |
| 49:18 | 1 Dirt | 57 | Mentemhe | |
| 20:7 | 3 zinc | 37 | JudgeMakani |
he data collected here, although incomplete, may suggest that Sand has a higher rate/easier time/more detrimental effect on impure smelting than other impurities (i.e. Dirt, etc.) Any thoughts?- Anakat
Iron Clusters + Aluminum Clusters / 4 = Amount of Steel Produced
| Iron: Alum | Yield | Researcher |
| 5:10 | 0 | Dragyn 1:2 |
| 8:8 | 4 | Dragyn 1:1 |
| 10:5 | 4 | Dragyn 2:1 |
| 12:3 | 4 | Dragyn 4:1 |
| 14:2 | 4 | Dragyn 7:1 |
| 15:1 | 4 | Dragyn 15:1 |
| 16:9 | 6 | Kai |
| 16:7 | 6 | Kai |
| 18:6 | 6 | Kai |
| 20:5 | 6 | Kai |
| 24:4 | 7 | Sola |
| 25:5 | 8 | Kai |
| 26:3 | 7 | Helpmaboab |
| 28:10 | 10 | Sola |
| 29:15 | 11 | Trizzle |
| 35:8 | 11 | Glixis |
| 36:11 | 12 | Sola |
| 44:9 | 13 | Glixis |
| 33:11 | 13 | Sola |
| 42:11 | 14 | bentup |
| 54:2 | 14 | Dyson |
| 52:24 | 19 | Dragyn |
| 44:22 | 17 | MaitreUber |
(Does it seem like its roughly total clusters / 4 = amount of steel regardless of ratio as long as there's more iron than aluminum?)
(Yeah, it seems consistent enough that I am starting to wonder if I miscounted somehow on 33:11 -> 13 -- Sola)
Iron Clusters + Tin Clusters / 6 = Amount of Steel Produced
| Iron:Tin | Yield | Researcher |
| 11:10 | 3 | Gada |
| 16:2 | 3 | Gada |
| 16:4 | 3 | Leghk |
| 22:12 | 5 | Gustav |
| 29:12 | 0 | Helpmaboab |
| 28:22 | 8 | hitoriki |
| 25:23 | 8 | hitoriki |
| 21:20 | 7 | Siti |
| Iron:Tin:Alu | Yield | Researcher |
| 20:5:5 | 6 | Gada |
| Iron:Alu | Impurities | Yield | Researcher |
| 10:2 | 2 Copper | 3 | Astymma |
| 27:5 | 3 Copper, 2 Dirt, 9 Sand | 0 | Leghk |
| 5:3 | 2 Dirt, 2 Sand | 2 | Leghk |
| 26:18 | 13 Zinc, 3 Dirt | 11 | Dyson |
| 12:8 | 7 Copper, 7 Dirt, 2 Sand | 5 | Azhrei |
This looks like, if no single impurity is higher than the aluminum, it will work. - Leghk
I can confirm that when aluminum is greater than the sum of the impurities, I always get a smelt result that is the sum of the iron and aluminum clusters divided by 4 - Dyson
| Iron:Tin | Impurities | Yield | Researcher |
| 16:3 | 4 limestone | 0 | Gada |
| 16:4 | 3 limestone | 3 | Gada |
| 23:16 | 15 Sand | 6 | Leghk |
| 32:20 | 4 Copper | 9 | Zignotrop |
| 28:15 | 4 Sand, 4 Dirt | 7 | Gustav |
| 39:18 | 3 copper | 9 | Gada |
| 38:12 | 10 copper | 8 | Gada |
| 41:13 | 12 copper | 9 | Gada |
| 38:6 | 5 limestone 4 copper 1 lead | 7 | Gada |
This looks like - similar to iron:aluminum alloys - that steel is produced at a 6:1 ratio (iron+tin:steel), if tin is the second-highest ore.
Draeton: I also can produce excellent results using Iron > Tin > Zinc, topping out so far (first night of doing this) at 51 steel in a single smelt. I stopped counting carefully after the first time I did this and it worked, but I believe I had as little as 1 zinc and had a very good result, though I suspect that one does better with 2 or 3. It also seemed I did slightly better when I had a higher ratio of iron to tin than when the two were close.
1 - Could Zinc be a catalyst?
2 - Are there any other 3 metal combinations that improve yields for other aloys?
CardinalTarod : The ratio produced by the sum of clusters of Iron/Tin/Zinc->Steel is 5/6. But I don't understand how rounding is done. The Iron/Tin/Zinc mix works with as low as 2 Tin and 1 Zinc - Could not test this with more than 40 Iron clusters. This makes me think that the Zinc is not considered as a catalyst but as a part of the alloy (Thus explaining why our previous Iron/Tin or Iron/Alu yields were so low). I keep on trying to find catalysts for Brass and Bronze, but this result makes me doubt they exist.
| Iron:Tin:Zinc | Yield | Researcher |
| 35:2:6 | 0 | Lasulu |
| 34:2:1 | 30 | FaceAnkh |
| 18:16:5 | 33 | Andius |
| 30:12:4 | 35 | Lasulu |
| 19:15:10 | 36 | Andius |
| 23:13:9 | 38 | Draeton |
| 23:20:6 | 40 | Andius |
| 26:18:6 | 40 | FaceAnkh |
| 35:8:6 | 42 | Lasulu |
| 28:22:5 | 44 | FaceAnkh |
| 36:22:6 | 45 | FaceAnkh |
| 39:20:10 | 56 | Illumination |
| 35:15:6 | 47 | Myremi |
| 37:19:6 | 51 | Myremi |
| 40:19:4 | 49 | Myremi |
| 51:20:9 | 62 | Forgiving |
| 51:25:14 | 63 | Forgiving |
| 35:13:2 | 40 | Talinkhamen |
| 40:15:3 | 46 | Talinkhamen |
| 37:12:4 | 45 | Solipsistos |
| 37:28:8 | 58 | Xav71 |
| 38:17:6 | 50 | Solipsistos |
| 43:26:8 | 63 | EveF |
| 20:18:6 | 36 | EveF |
| 36:7:7 | 37 | LadyGrim |
| 30:18:6 | 43 | MarvL |
| 26:17:6 | 39 | MarvL |
| 31:17:13 | 50 | MarvL |
| 28:17:10 | 43 | MarvL |
| 25:13:9 | 38 | MarvL |
| 27:21:4 | 42 | MarvL |
CardinalTarod : Iron/Alu/Zinc seems to consistently produce Steel according to the 2-metal Steel Iron/Alu, ignoring the Zinc as if it was any kind of impurity : (Iron+Alu)/4. Thanks to Stratochief for his tests : 24Iron/17Alu/9Zinc -> 11 steel, that being (24+17)/4 rounded up 25Iron/18Alu/8Zinc -> 11 steel also, (25+18=43)/4). Copper does not look like the Iron/Alu catalyst. Stratochief tried a 25Iron/16Alu/7copper (and 4Zinc as impurities) and got 10 steel (25+16)/4 again.
Draeton: Tried Iron/Alu/Titanium. It did not give me strong results. I didn't count the clusters, but I know I normally avg 11-13 steel and I got 12 when I added 1 titanium in. Must be a different ore (or possibly need more than 1 cluster of titanium)
Elle: It seems impurities need to be less than the zinc to get the 5/6 yield, ie it has to be iron>tin>zinc>impurities. I tried 40Iron/14Tin/10Impurities/1Zinc and got 9 yield, which is 1/6 of Iron+Tin (the normal Iron/Tin yield).
Results:
| Tin | Antimony | Pewter | (total clusters in) | Tin:antimony | Pewter/cluster |
| 6 | 14 | 0 | 20 | 3:7 | 0% |
| 5 | 1 | 4 | 6 | 5:1 | 66% |
| 4 | 3 | 4 | 7 | 4:3 | 57% |
| 6 | 1 | 4 | 7 | 6:1 | 57% |
| 9 | 1 | 5 | 10 | 9:1 | 50% |
| 6 | 3 | 6 | 9 | 2:1 | 66% |
| 10 | 2 | 7 | 12 | 5:1 | 58% |
| 10 | 5 | 9 | 15 | 2:1 | 60% |
| 15 | 3 | 12 | 18 | 5:1 | 66% |
| 17 | 7 | 16 | 24 | 2.4:1 | 66% |
| 21 | 6 | 16 | 27 | 3.5:1 | 60% |
| 22 | 4 | 16 | 26 | 5.5:1 | 61% |
| 18 | 7 | 17 | 25 | 2.6:1 | 68% |
| 15 | 13 | 17 | 28 | 1.15:1 | 60% |
| 30 | 1 | 19 | 31 | 30:1 | 61% |
| 28 | 6 | 21 | 34 | 4.6:1 | 62% |
| 31 | 6 | 23 | 37 | 5.1:1 | 62% |
| 28 | 13 | 25 | 41 | 2.15:1 | 61% |
| 29 | 13 | 26 | 42 | 2.23:1 | 61.9% |
| 34 | 8 | 25 | 42 | 4.25:1 | 59.5% |
Numbers are given in number of clusters. Tin and Antimony is how many are in the cart, Pewter is how much is produced.
With the exception of the 1 failure, this looks like a formula of (Tin+Antimony)*0.6 = Pewter
[Can someone re-test around 30 tin with a single cluster of antimony? Wondering if a mistake was made there accidentally, or if it's better to have at least 2 antimony clusters] - Temm retested and got 19 pewter, removed failed 30:1 smelt as a probable miscount
Tin:Antimony ratios from 5:1 to 1.15:1 seem to work. It appears that N tin + 1 antimony cluster works (might want 2 antimony if you're paranoid).
Pewter recipes that do not work (or result in smaller smelts):
Impure Results:
| Tin | Antimony | Impurities | Result |
| 25 | 7 | 3 copper | 6 Pewter |
The Wikipedia says that the alloy is made up of 70 to 94% Tin and 5 to 24% of Antimony, with up to 5% of Copper... Tests have been done with different ratios, but any ratio between 4:1 and 17:1 should work. -- TheMazeEcho