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Trading

Overview

Trading is a part of everyday life in Egypt. Since no currency has been invented yet, it is done by exchanging goods.

Trading is largely done via personal contacts, either directly or in social guilds. Contacting friends and neighbours (especially mentors if you're new) will often find you what you need.

To support indirect trades, the wiki has the trade lists - lists of goods that people wish to trade.

Other key trade sites:

Evaluating prices

To make the evaluation of prices easier, here is a list of goods and their estimated relative values in an abstract unit of "SE", seconds equivalent. For basic resources like wood, grass or slate, it is about equal to the time (in seconds) you need to gather 1 unit of the resource. Expect actual prices to be slightly lower if you sell or slightly higher if you want to buy!

Ressource number of units value in SE Reasoning
Grass 100 240 If you run in a line and click grass you can get 1500 grass per hour
Straw 100 250 Grass + running/drying/picking up time
Slate 100 1200 Takes about 12 seconds to get a slate, I guess?
Clay 100 150 Run along a clay field with a buncha jugs, get one every 1.5 seconds.
Flint 100 3000 1/20 clay gives a flint.
Wood 100 100 I get 480-500 wood in a 4 minute run with a half-decent hatchet, and it'll get easier with more hatchets.
Boards 100 250 wood + 1 iron + blade making time + carpentry shop usingtime
Charcoal 100 450 2 wood per cc, 10 minutes per hearth run with 5 hearths
Flax seeds, Nile Green 100 300 I plant 32 fields and run around. Takes 8 minutes, gives 160 new seeds.
Flax 100 400 seeds + planting/weeding = 2 flax. I do 12 fields at a time, so 2 minutes+24 seeds = 48 flax.
Rotten Flax 100 450 should be same as flax+ a little, 'cause you ahve to run to water twice/etc
Tow 100 975 10 runs through 3-step process on flax comb + cost of base rotten flax. You get straw, tow and lint during the process, so only partly counted
Lint 100 975 same as tow
Twine 100 350 1 tow = 3 twine, plus processing time.
Thread 100 75 1 lint = 15 thread, plus processing time.
Rope 100 1850 1 rope = 5 twine + processing time
Onions 100 90 plant 14 seeds, get 10 per harvest, makes 140 onions in 2 minutes.
Carrots 100 200 Someone else think about this. :)
Ash 100 950 depends on the price for papy or carrots, so it's basically a good guess
Tilapia, catfish 100 ? somebody else think about this. :)
Nails 100 560 4.2 iron plus 4.2 minutes at the forge, assuming you have more than 1 forge
Iron 1 100 On average, it's about 100 seconds (without fish) to get an iron.
Copper 1 100 Same, roughly, as iron, just a little rarer to find a good mine of it.
Lead 1 200 Wow, I'd expect higher. It's hard to mine even in lead mines. Others agree?
Cuttable Stone 1 100 One every 100 seconds at a dig... maybe? Should go down with new shovels.
Medium Stone 1 500 5 cuttables per medium from my digs... Should also change with new shovels
Tungsten 1 3000 Yeah. That's more like it.
Medium Quartz 1 ? Not a miner.
Medium Topaz 1 ? Not a miner.
Medium Ruby 1 ? Not a miner.
Linen 1 360 400 thread + END timer.
Canvas 1 270 60 twine + END timer. That's right, canvas is cheaper, in theory, than linen. too bad this doesn't involve "use" :))

Comments and discussion about prices below this line:


I think it might be nice to have a consistent "number" -- scanning down and seeing grass as nearly twice as valuable as ash is really weird. Just 1 item, even if it means it's 2.7 seconds of effort. Also, all numbers should be TSE -- TeppySeconds Equivalent -- because timers are in teppy seconds, running sped (thus time to get your next grass), etc, are all based on teppy timers. Drying times, how long fish are active, etc, etc... real world time is a little odd to try to measure it in. --Leetah

If SE is suposed to be a kind of standard for currency based on effort and time needed, I think the math needs to be revised.... for example, somehow the price for flint and straw should be different than shown. Although you are on a good track, a standard conversion rate for materials would be great if currency tsn't implimented. --BlkHawkJoe er, currency isn't... implemented. It's created. By the players. But we can't have hard currency 'til we can print money. And even then, it would probably never be a smash hit except as a reference for value. If this works out well, it would be great. The problem I see with this is that it doesn't involve USEFULNESS...like, if canvas is used 20x as much as linen, that changes things a LOT...both because you may not flax all 3 steps in your flax rake (don't need the extra lint), and because eveyone would have too much linen siting around... Which is why, really, it's all about a supply and demand system, which will slowly figure itself out, and for now, it's just "what you think it's worth." :)

I changed the values so that either 1 or 100 units are used as a basis for the value, and sorted the list, that should make the prices clearer. -- Pyramidis

I feel like we need a system that can calculate values on the fly... Someone just changed straw, which (technically) should change tow, twine, all clothwork, ... :) Too bad we can't put in "100 tow = 1*SE(100flax) + 30m - 100*SE(100straw)" ... would be so nice...

  Yes, too bad, but I changed all flax products as well. -- Pyramidis

Don't get me wrong, "Me Time Spent" is a very useful measurement for how much it is worth (to you) in trade. The only trouble is that "variables preclude a fixed solution". Tool used, tool replacement cost, player skill, player play times, Capital costs... Still, creating ballpark-type figures is helpful. Perhaps this page should also contain links to "standards" of various organizations? Assuming we don't get deluged with such standards, anyway. - Sabt-Pestnu

Although the system is rudamentary, there needs to be someway to figure out how supply and demand is working in this economy. If there's a lot of demand for a particular product, and the SE severely undervalues it (I'm thinking of canvas here), it could lead to a shortage of that product (or more likely sellers reevaluating their options and forgoeing the SE completely). Close observation of long-term open auctions should help in this capacity. -Leyic

Heres a very easy way to make personal trade lists...until we get something like trade on .info last telling. I will now make a page called Trade Lists. On this page you will make a link with your name, and a short "advert." Then on your page you will pick something cheap...say flax. You will give this a low value. Then you would move onto say iron and give this a medium etc. You must be happy that say flax at 2 and iron at 60 you would accept 30 flax for one iron. You will also leave location details and times you are online. This will just be a trial to see if it would work, and I will make a example page to show an example.


This is good work, I was thinking of doing something similar myself. However there are other factors than "time to do something". Could we change this to a table detailing:
1. Time to do it (as above)
2. Endurance time - iron, flax products, etc.
3. Off line activities - grass, onions, etc are easier to produce offline at the moment
4. Overhead issues. Sheep and camel products are cheap, but the cost of the pen, catching straw need accounting for. Same for craft furnaces.
5. Market pressures - for example newbies demand iron, stones - and the linen/canvas issue mentioned above
I'd like to see a table for all products, listing all contributions to "cost". I'd then like to see us try to work out the relative costs of "offline time", "endurance time", "real time", etc.
I'd also like to see this page moved/renamed to "Goods Pricing" or "Goods Cost"
Blogot

trade system related user pages

note: those links relate to different aproaches to value of goods and are not price lists even though they may look like them.


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Last edited December 31, 2005 2:50 am by Jumpingjax (diff)
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