Users > Calen > Genetics

The attached spreadsheet has been updated with new genetic sequences as of 6/14/07. Haven't had time to format them for the Wiki, so download the spreadsheet to see my latest conjectures. As you read this page, please feel free to compose comments and insert them below wherever appropriate and include your name so I know who to contact in-game. Many thanks to Eigam and whoever did the initial work on Balance. ~Calen

Grape Vine Genetics

I have done extensive work with Revelation Solvents to try to determine to complete gene sequences for all of the basic vines that we started with. If you want an explanation of how solvents work, please read my Solvents Explanation page.

It is my hope that by doing this research we may be able to use some variation of the spreadsheet I have created to extrapolate the probable gene sequences of existing hybrids. At that point, we should be able to use that data to predict which vines we would be best to create new hybrids with.

Probable Vine Gene Sequences

If you have trouble seeing the entire sequence in your browser, try holding down the Ctrl key while rolling your mouse wheel forward

These are the main group of sequences I am considering right now:

Vine

Traits

Grapes

Possible Genetic Sequences

Amusement

GGVV

9

G

G

G

G

G

R

O

G

R

O

O

O

R

G

G

G

G

G

G

G

G

G

G

R

O

G

R

O

O

O

R

G

G

G

G

G

Appreciation

QQQ

10

R

Y

Y

R

K

G

Y

R

Y

R

Y

Y

R

Y

Y

R

K

G

Y

R

Y

R

Y

Y

R

Y

Y

R

K

G

Y

R

Y

R

Y

Y

Balance

SQKCA

9

O

O

R

K

Y

Y

Y

G

G

G

R

Y

Y

R

Y

Y

R

G

G

G

Y

R

O

G

G

G

R

R

O

O

Y

Y

G

G

G

O

Contemplation

QQKK

9

R

O

G

G

G

G

R

Y

Y

R

O

K

R

Y

Y

R

G

Y

R

O

G

G

G

G

R

Y

Y

R

O

K

R

Y

Y

R

G

Y

Distraction

GG

8

G

G

G

G

O

O

R

K

G

G

G

G

G

O

O

O

R

G

G

G

G

G

O

O

R

K

G

G

G

G

G

O

O

O

R

G

Frivolity

ACSSAC

10

K

R

R

O

O

Y

Y

G

Y

Y

Y

G

G

G

G

G

Y

R

Y

G

G

G

Y

Y

Y

R

R

O

O

Y

Y

R

K

R

O

O

Wisdom

KKK

9

G

G

G

O

G

Y

R

O

G

G

G

G

G

G

G

O

G

Y

R

O

G

G

G

G

G

G

G

O

G

Y

R

O

G

G

G

G

Calixes#22

ACQQS

11

K

R

R

O

O

Y

Y

G

G

G

G

G

Y

Y

Y

G

Y

R

Y

Y

R

Y

Y

R

K

G

Y

R

Y

R

Y

Y

R

Y

Y

R

Eigam Copper

SQKGG

9

O

O

R

K

Y

Y

Y

G

G

G

O

O

R

G

G

G

G

G

O

O

G

G

G

R

Y

Y

R

O

O

O

R

G

R

Y

Y

R

TIP: I find it much easier to view these in a spreadsheet format, and I have attached my spreadsheet below. It is in Excel format and it has my choices for the various genes highlighted in different colors.

Alternate Sequences

Here are a few samples of the alternates that are possible given the data I currently have. There are many possible alternate sequences for almost all of the vines.

Vine

Traits

Grapes

Possible Genetic Sequences

Appreciation 2

QQQ

10

R

Y

Y

R

Y

Y

R

K

G

Y

R

Y

R

Y

Y

R

Y

Y

R

K

G

Y

R

Y

R

Y

Y

R

Y

Y

R

K

G

Y

R

Y

Balance 2

SQKCA

9

O

O

R

K

Y

Y

Y

G

G

G

R

Y

Y

G

G

G

O

Y

Y

R

G

G

G

Y

R

O

G

G

G

R

R

O

O

Y

Y

G

Frivolity 2

ACSSAC

10

K

R

O

O

Y

Y

Y

G

G

G

Y

R

R

O

O

Y

Y

G

G

G

G

Y

Y

Y

R

R

O

O

Y

Y

R

K

R

R

O

O

Frivolity 3

ACSSAC

10

K

R

O

O

Y

Y

G

G

G

G

Y

Y

Y

R

R

Y

R

K

R

R

O

O

Y

Y

Y

G

G

G

Y

R

R

O

O

Y

Y

G

NOTE: The Frivolity 3 sequence (above) shows three OOY sequences, which was one reason I rejected it.

Assumptions

Obviously, I have made a bunch of assumptions in laying out these sequences. Some of the assumptions I made were:

• Because of the paucity of results for different gene sequences in vines with double or triple genes (i.e., GGVV, QQQ, QQKK, GG, KKK) and the large re-occurence of sequences such as 'GGG', 'GGGG', and 'GGGGG', I have assumed that Teppy (or whoever designed this) divided the total sequence into thirds or in half and duplicated the sequence 3 or 2 times. For example, the Amusement vine could have the same sequence on the left and the right, with a VG sequence on the left, duplicated on the right side, and with the 'GGGGG' sequences as filler that bridges the division in the middle (and on the outside edges probably). It could have been either a time-saving method on their part or a clue that they left behind.
• Because I considered Contemplation to probably be one of these vines (divided down the center, the same sequence on both sides), with a sequence something like QKQK, and because all of my solvent research results hang together into an 18 letter sequence for that vine so perfectly, I doubled that sequence resulting in a total sequence of 36 characters. Because of that and subsequent experiments, I went with a total sequence length of 36 for all vines, a number which is divisible into halves or thirds.
  • This brings up an interesting aspect. With a 36 base, they maximum number of exclusive 3 sequence genes would be 12, which makes some current hybrids theoretically impossible (i.e. Calixes#132). However, if the gense can overlap these vines become explainable; RRYYYRYY reads AQS due to the overlapping RR and YYY. This definitely would explain the ease of breeding the multi-QS vines, since each Q can overlap with 2 S. ~ Noobie
• Various other assumptions based on crossbreed results (see the 2nd tab in my spreadsheet), such as: the Balance gene for Sugar is on the left-hand side, followed by Q (Quality), and then by K (sKin), and then by A and C (Acid and Color).
• I also chose some sequences (such as that for Appreciation) because they helped explain the sequence for hybrids that I did some limited testing on, such as Calixes#22.
• And there are probably a bunch of assumptions that I am forgetting right now, so ask if something looks strange to you and I will try to explain my choices.

Problems

There are still problems to be addressed, among them:

• What is the Initial Grapes gene? No speculation about this at this time.
  • I've wondered about the same since you can get a wild variety of initial grapes values based off breeding the same vines together (my attempts at a 4g+ vine demonstrates this). My working theory is that the initial grapes may be tied to the number of 'blank' sequences in the genome. For instance the long bands of green you have observed, or a broken series missing a third gene (a broken skin sequence of just OG to cite your table below). It is possible the initial grapes is set to M + b, where M is the base minimum and b is the number of unrecognized sequences. RROOYgggYYYrOGR would read ACSV plus 2 inital grapes. ~ Noobiehotep

• Various crossbreed problems, which I have just started to grapple with, for example: Calixes#25, a cross of Distraction x Balance produces a 2nd sugar gene somehow. That's fine if the place where the gene sequences were broken and recombined produces another YYY combination, but Distraction doesn't seem to have the Yellow color in it at all, at least as far as my results have shown so far, so where does this new combination come from? Could it be a mistake in the record keeping for that vine? Still working on this one.

Probable Genes

Based on my research and experiments with combining the results so far, I believe the genes are as follows:

Probable Genes
R	R		Acid
O	O	Y	Color
O	R	G	Grapes
R	Y	Y	x2 = Quality
O	G	G	Skin (K)
Y	Y	Y	Sugar
O	G	R	Vigor
?	?	?	Initial Grapes

NOTE: That Acid seems to be a two-letter sequence (I did not leave out a letter by mistake). Actually, the Acid and Color genes might be switched. I don't have data currently that tells me which one is which definitively. Some of the hybrid data is suggestive, however.

Final Thoughts

Please feel free to shoot my reasoning full of holes! Paste your notes here if you wish, or on the pages for the individual vine sequences. Any help figuring this out is appreciated.

Obviously, it would help if others would do additional research with solvents on several of these vines. But be prepared to get a lot of duplicate results. I basically gave up using more solvents on vines like Distraction and Wisdom because I kept getting tons of GGG, GGGG, and GGGGG sequences again and again. You might want to focus on more interesting vines like Appreciation, Balance, and Frivolity, or perhaps some hybrids. Any additional data would be welcome!

If anyone wants help getting started with this, please let me know. Thanks!

~Calen

Here's what I came up with from your data: Vine Genetics, scroll to the end. ~Shelyak