Beta Over
Beta is over folks, been a fun ride, but now we need to concentrate on figuring out the exact system used, and now it's a bit easier than before as you can smelt a single crystal and get results from it. Pure crystals should at least let us figure out the specifics and differences. I'll see you guys in final and thanks for all the hard work you've put into publically available research! I'll move the Combined Chart pics over to a new page on the new wiki and blank the information on what it provides until further testing is done. Thanks again everyone. --Shadus
IMPORTANT NOTE 02/09
It seems crystal lenght may be a factor after all as shown on this screen shot : the purple crystals are clearly shorter than the purple ones. It doesn't prove that a given color/pattern/shape exists in different sizes, but it might be worth to keep an eye out for an evidence. This would be an explanation for some incoherence witnessed recently (like SB- crystals giving tin instead of iron)
 . |
Can you find an example of differnt lengths of purple crystal coming from the same mine? Otherwise it could be regionally induced variations... or one of the earlier theories about each crystal type having a value like 1 iron, .5 copper, .2 tin, .1 aluminum.
IMPORTANT NOTE 31/8
Only one crystal is now the minimal to get some metal from the smelting pot. Tested smelting 1 stone having only 1 sky black crystal and got 1 iron -- Finndi
Other important note : smelting 1 iron crystal with at least 4 or 5 tungsten one resulted in 1 iron. Seems the crystal count isn't the only criteria, size may be involved too (sky black crystals are often larger than tungsten ones)
IMPORTANT NOTE 8/29/04 AND 8/30/04 CHANGES
More changes to mining were done today. Recheck your results, I've been getting strange results since the change on many different stones, everything that has been confirmed needs reconfirmed post 8/29. Thanks for all the hard work and dedication to figuring this out everyone. -- Shadus
More changes were made on 8/30/04 this morning. Seems Teppy's map scale was 16x off... iron and copper were around 80m from any given point on avg. Recheck your results, they may or may not be valid any longer.
I'd like to field a suggestion regarding the substantial changes of 8/29. I think it is fair to say that we are going to have to reevaluate most of our data regarding mine outputs, both by crystal and by location. As more new data comes in, it is becoming increasingly difficult to differentiate between new and old information. I would like to propose that we go through the smelting combinations theories and the mine location charts and eliminate ALL data points that do not explicitly state that they are from after the change. I think in the long term, this will speed our understanding of the system by eliminating a lot of seemingly contradictory data that is no longer useful. -- Amanesus, 9/1
Images
CURRENT CHART: chart: Crystals and their outputs, arranged by color and pattern, with images for distinguishing shape/depth as well. Last updated 8/30, 3:00am EDT to account for changed data (chart now has a last-updated line, also). Nefer-Bast is compiling these; please email screenshots to ornithopter[at]brown[dot]edu and they will be added to the chart. Any color/pattern combo not yet on the chart would be particularly appreciated, but if I have 4 or 5 of something there already it probably won't get added. Thanks to Hirokache for hosting. Apologies for the broken images - Dreamweaver is slightly too clever for it's own good. Please inform me directly if it happens again.(Nefer-Bast)Additional screenshots: Combined Chart
Color and pattern naming conventions
Crystals tend to have one strong color, with a pattern of some sort of white, black, and/or greys (possibly with peach). The accepted format for listing crystal descriptions is color/pattern. Abbreviations for use in the chart below are also included. If you think you have a new color, please note it as such when reporting it for anything else on this page; if you just aren't sure which color you have, post a screenshot.Colors:
- A: aqua (turquoisey-blue, very bright)
- G: green (grass-green, includes all formerly known greens other than teal)
- K: pink
- N: navy (dark blue)
- P: purple
- R: red
- S: sky (light blue)
- T: teal (brilliant, bluish green)
- Y: yellow
Patterns:
- B: black (large, no peach)
- C: cloud (large, no peach, appears grey on ends, cloud-like white patterns along sides - formerly referred to as white and grey)
- M: mottled (grey and peach, marble-like)
- S: spotted (a mix of white, grey, and black, no peach, looks almost as if it's pitted)
Shape Of Crystal: (Note: I thought, for about four days, that this was talking about shape of the patterns, thick lines/etc -- for others confused (unless I'm the only dumb one around here), the crystals are actually shaped differently when viewed from the tip.)
- +: wide/round (All edges of the crystal itself are equal length -- producing an almost cylidrical (round, if viewed from tip) crystal)
- -: narrow/thin (Four of the edges of the crystal are SHORTER than the other two, making one dimension of the crystal distinctly longer, when viewed from the tip)
Depth:
- O: sticks out (sticks way out, sometimes even "hovering" outside the rock)
- D: deeply set (sometimes entirely hidden inside the rock, only tips and maybe a bit of the flat sides stick out)
Examples (all of these actually exist):
- SB+O: Thick sky/black, sticking out
- SB-D: Thin sky/black, deep set
- RC-D: Thin red/cloud,deep set
- GM+D: Thick green/mottled, deep set
Interesting/Important Facts
Important:
- Crystals can be 100% hidden inside the ore stone. If you are doing rigerous tests for the website, please check inside your stones first.
Interesting:
- The ore stone model is built around a copy of the candle model. You can see this by clipping the front of the ore stone with your camera.
Open Questions (Please Answer)
PEOPLE WHO CAN ANSWER: those who have found rarer metals.
QUESTION:What is the frequency of the rarer crystals? (As in, out of 100 pulls, how many of the stones do you expect to HAVE the rare crystal?)
RESPONSES:
none yet! (please include crystal type, and name if willing.)
PEOPLE WHO CAN ANSWER: those who have found rarer metals.
QUESTION: What is the frequency of usable stones? (As in, out of 100 pulls, how many do you expect to have the rare crystal and go into a cart?)
RESPONSES:
none yet! (please include crystal type, and name if willing.)
Karnits observations on Aluminum
Navy/ Black crystals, usually only 1, 2 or occasionally 3 crystals in each rock, often the third is hidden in the rock
I get the Aluminum crystals approximately 1 in 20 pulls. About 50 percent of rocks with aluminum are primarily aluminum, others have large quantities of other crystals.
Burning about 18 rocks worth (about 40 crystals worth) yielded 6 Aluminum using a craft furnace.
Burning 10 rocks worth (about 20 crystals) yielded 2 Aluminum using a craft furnace.
I have three mines within 40 coordinates of each other that yield aluminum, two are similar, one yields about 75% of the either one of the other two.
Crystals are often found with Sky/Black Iron.
Both batches mentioned above have only slightly less iron then Aluminum crystals.
Mine locations are in Lower Nubia, feel free to chat me if you like.
So answer to the question, out of 100 pulls, 6 have aluminum, 4 are usable.
Proposed Theories
NOTE the following from IRC discussion:[00:40] <Rehpic> why cant we just take 5 of the 500 stones in the cart and put them in the pot?Thus it is likely that only the total number of stones, and the total number of crystals of each color/pattern are relevant. Possibly also the number of totally blank stones.
[00:40] <Teppy> Because they're all crumbled together once they get into the cart.
The crystals and the patterns within them denote a specific ore type. Every mine can (in theory) produce every crystal type however the location of the mine DOES determine the frequency of specific crystals. That means that some areas will be better at getting say iron, while others produce gold easily, and still others nothing but dirt. (Teppy has stated that a 3d ore map and collapsing mines will be implemented which would allow for the production of more types of ores in other areas -renon)
Alternate Theory: Each crystal/pattern combination (however many are identified) has a value that it contributes to the copper value, the iron value, the gold value, et cetera, of your cart. When smelted, if the iron value is high enough, you will obtain iron. This differs from the above theory in that a Red/Black+ could contain a copper value of 0.9, while it contains an iron value of -0.4, and a gold value of -.2. Thus, adding stones of RB+ toan iron batch hurts the output, while, perhaps, the TS "copper" stones have 0.8 copper and 0.3 iron, so while you get copper for pure TS, they can add to iron as well. This theory will be much harder to test.
Current Goals
- Determine the pure results for each crystal type when smelted with no other crystal types. Most people consider this knowledge a pre-requisite to understanding impure, or mixed, results.
- Determine the variants (shape/depths) for each type. Shape is now a proven distinction. Depth isn't yet, but keep data until we're sure. (Note: depth appears to have no effect on crystal drops. -Nefer-Bast) <Shadus: I'm not sure that shape is yet, I have yet to have a mine provide different results on the same Color/Pattern of crystals regardless of shape. My belief is shifting to it's based on region. If possible please record coords you were in for each result you get and what region it was in.>
- Determine the minimum number of stones and crystals to obtain results in the various furnaces. This will extend to understanding the algorithm for how your results are determined. (Ex: "NumberOfStones * (NumberOfCrystalsOfPrimaryType - NumberOfCrystalsOfNonPrimaryType) * EfficiencyOfSmelter" -- If something like this could be determined, we would be able to pick the best amounts to smelt, and make smarter mining decisions.)
- Determine if there are significant differences between smelters. (Currently, there is a theory that each of the three available smelters handles impurities differently -- Smelting Pot gets worse from all impurities, Craft Furnace only from mud/dirt/sand, and Precious seems to have odd results which are not yet tested enough to know for sure)
Future Goals
- After pure results are known, researching mixed results for Combination Effects and negative/volatile side effects of mixed batches.
CONFIRMED types
Pure Crystal Smeltings. Dirt always drops dirt when broken. (ls) means it drops limestone when broken, (d) drops dirt when broken, (null) drops nothing when broken - if you find something drops limestone which used to be mud or sand, please retest what it smelts to (and move to the "need testing" section in the meantime). Please add variants as you see them, and separate them into multiple lines if they have different results (note: don't worry about gems here; those vary by place. just null/dirt/ls).| Crystal Type | Result | known variants | Observers | comments |
| blank rocks | nothing(null) | N/A | practically everyone | |
| aqua/cloud | tin(null) | +D | Tamutnefret, Shadus, Nefer-Bast | Confirmed after 8/29 |
| aqua/spotted | lead | +D | Pameow, Jaolen | Confirmed after 8/29 |
| green/black | sand(?) | -D | Chichis, Amanesus | Confirmed 8/31 |
| green/cloud | sand(null) | -O | Nefer-Bast, Chichis | |
| green/cloud | antimony | +D | Hemakhet | confirmed 1/9 |
| green/spotted thick | dirt(d) | +O | Chichis, Dragyn, Nefer-Bast | Confirmed after 8/29 |
| green/spotted thin | titanium | Aiiro | Confirmed after 8/29 | |
| navy/cloud | lithium(?) | ? | Chichis, Qetesh | |
| navy/mottled - | dirt | Nefer-Bast | Confirmed after 8/29 | |
| navy/mottled + | sand | Finndi,Takatok | Confirmed after 8/29 | |
| navy/black thick | lead | +O | Nefer-Bast, Tefnut | confirmed after 8/29 |
| navy/black thin | aluminum | -D | Finndi | confirmed after 8/29 |
| pink/mottled | mud(?) | ? | Safira, Caedric | |
| pink/black | copper(null) | +O | Chichis, Qetesh | |
| purple/mottled thick | limestone(ls) | +O, +D | Nefer-Bast | |
| purple/mottled thin | sand(null) | -D | Nefer-Bast | reconfirmed 8/31 |
| purple/black | limestone(ls) | -O | Pameow, Shadus, Trevius | |
| red/cloud thick | antimony | +D | Shadus | after 8/29 |
| red/cloud thin | copper | -D | Hakiqah, Amanesus | confirmed after 8/29 |
| red/black | dirt | +O | Nefer-Bast | confirmed after 8/29 |
| red/spotted | magnesium | Tefnut | ||
| sky/black | iron(null) | +0, -O | MadWombat | confirmed 1/9 |
| sky/cloud | iron(null) | +D | Chichis | |
| sky/spotted | sand(null) | +D | Nefer-Bast, Amanesus | confirmed 8/31 |
| teal/mottled | mud(?) | ? | Chichis, others | |
| teal/spotted | lead | Tefnut | ||
| teal/spotted + | iron | Finndi | 31 Aug, LN 406 -3679 | |
| yellow/black | platinum(?) | ? | Safira, Shadus | Confirmed after 8/29 |
| yellow/spotted + | tungsten | ? | Finndi | 31 Aug, LN 406 -3679 |
| yellow/mottled | magnesium | Tefnut | ||
| yellow/mottled + | tungsten | Finndi | 31 Aug, LN 406 -3679 |
CONFIRMED - CONFLICTING
Please, others, re-check these results.If a confirmed pure has an unexpected result, please move it here.
| Crystal Type | Original Result | Original Observer | Observed Location (Old) | Variants (Old) | New Result | New Observer | Observed Location (New) | Variants (New) |
| green/mottled | copper(null) | Nefer-Bast, Khatzesput | before 8/29 | +D | Aluminum | Shadus, Nefer-Bast (Pure, After 8/29 Change) | Upper Nubia (285,n6250) | +D |
| green/mottled | Lead | Squatt | DoS (-2684, 4111) | |||||
| green/mottled | strontium | Finndi | RSO (2088, 2713) after 8/29 | + | ||||
| navy/mottled thick | zinc | +D | Shadus | After 8/29 | ||||
| navy/mottled | sand (!!) | Finndi | RSO (1507 2283) after 8/29 | + | ||||
| navy/spotted | Silver(?) | Ndainye, Yoru | (before 8/29 change) | iron(?) | Chichis, Coug, Nefer-Bast | (before 8/29 change) | ||
| purple/spotted | copper(null) | Pameow, Artemix, Kysen | before 8/29 | +D | strontium | Finndi, Amanesus | after 8/29 change | +O |
| purple/black | limestone(ls) | Pameow, Shadus, Trevius | before 8/29? | -O | ?(null) | Haqikah | after 8/29 change | -O |
| pink/spotted | antimony(?) | Ledeanna, Daerkannon | after 8/29 in LN | ? | strontium | Nefer-Bast | after 8/29 change | -O |
| sky/black | iron(null) | Everyone | before 8/29 | -O +O -D | Tin [Iron] | Shadus, [Bigboy] (After 8/29 Change) | Upper Nubia (285,n6250), [VoK] | ? |
| teal/spotted | iron(null) | many reports | widespread before 8/29 | +O | gold | Nefer-Bast (before *first* mining change) | (before changes) | ? |
Does anyone have a clear, confirmable case of two crystals of the same shape (cylinder or oblong) but with one spotted and one mottled producing different results? I'm fairly convinced based on my observations that there is only the one pattern (spotted/mottled), and the crystal shapes are the only difference. -- Amanesus, ND, 8/30 Yes, Teal/Spotted and Teal/Mottled produce different results. Unless one was - and one was +, in which case, you still may be right. But there is definately a distinct pattern difference, and why would there be 4 patterns if two of them are the same...? Just to throw us off? I mean, if ALL patterns were the same, that might make sense as a red herring, but only two? Perhaps there are more subtle variations in the shapes that we're not seeing?
NEED TESTING
If you have a mine that produces ore stones with purely these crystals, please test them and post results.
If you find a new crystal type, please add it here.
| Crystal Type | Comments |
| green/mottled | Multiple conflicting reports, since 8/29. Check shape data also. |
| navy/spotted | Conflicting Reports. Look for shape data. |
| pink/spotted | 8/29 conflict |
| purple/cloud | No pure sample tested yet. |
| purple/spotted | conflicting reports since 8.29 |
| red/mottled | one report, not confirmed |
| red/spotted | pure gave magnesium(Kyel-pa-sheri) before intro of limestone. dropped limestone (at least +O variant, Nefer-Bast) before 8/29, needs retesting. |
| teal/spotted | Conflicting Reports. Look for shape data. |
| teal/black | Not tested yet. |
| sky/black | 8/29 conflict : Definatly Iron for both Thick and Thin - SB+O and SB-O tested 1/9 repeatedly on pure samples. |
| yellow/mottled | one report, not confirmed |
Tidbit from teppy
[11:59] <Kumquats>I don't think his 'colorblind can mine' is saying that color doesn't matter.
[11:59] <Logicritus>mm, i think combinations of colors do matter
[11:59] <Teppy[eGenesis]>No. It's just like colorblind people can tell apart oranges and apples. Just not by color.
...<snip>...
[12:43] <TheDude> im going to mine in greyscale tonight if i can. seriously. i love the idea
[12:44] <Teppy[eGenesis]>Yes, mining in greyscale is a good idea.
Links to related pages
| Mining Metallurgy | Link back. |
| Detailed Results | Detailed Lists of results. |
| Combination Effects | Theories relating to mixed-crystal smelting. |
| Gem Mining | Information about mining for gems. |
| pstone | (This is a link to a gif or jpg file. Just download it then rename it to pstone.gif or pstone.jpg Both Work) |
| Combined Chart | Combined, Beautified Chart |
| Wikt Research | Wikt's Experiments. |
| ChichisMining | Chichis's Experiment Page |
| AmanesusMining | Amanesus' Mining Experiments |
| http://atitd.centauri.org/wiki/Oresbycolor | Chichis, sorted by ore. |
| FinndiMining | Finndi mine crystals output, with locations. |
| Hypatia's Smelting Research | Hypatia's research into exact smelting output. |